The Grow Show: Business Growth Stories from the Frontlines

How to Create a Mobility Culture Pt. 2

• Scott Scully, Jeff Winters, Eric Watkins • Season 2 • Episode 53

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Revisiting a critical concept from Season 2, Episode 31, this discussion underscores the importance of a mobility culture within organizations for fostering employee growth and organizational flexibility. The idea that employees should move across various roles and disciplines is not just about career progression; it's a strategic approach to building a resilient and adaptable workforce. By sharing stories of individuals who have navigated from entry-level positions to leadership roles, we highlight how internal mobility contributes to a deeper understanding of the business, enhances employee retention, and fosters innovation.


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Unknown:

All these years I'm still here

Eric Watkins:

nothing could stop me. Welcome back to the gross show. I'm here with a solo. My solo partner in crime today are our CEO Scott is in Mexico, sipping on some pina coladas undisclosed location, undisclosed location. He may or may not be at a wedding in Cancun. Yeah, go find. Yeah, look for the guy on the beach. Nice bronze tan sipping on a pina colada. But neither here nor there, the show must go on. I'm here today with my partner in crime, Jeff winters.

Jeff Winters:

These must go on always.

Eric Watkins:

What are you focused today us in law, like you're not focused and couldn't be

Jeff Winters:

more focused? It's a little tricky. As we had like, end of the month, beginning of the month, sales wise, I gotta get my mind in the right place. But but

Eric Watkins:

you got it. I'm back. And here's the deal. Scott goes on vacation. But you know, who doesn't go on vacation? Who's the sheriff?

Jeff Winters:

Do you want to talk about how people think I'm their favorite character on this show? I'd feel odd talking about it.

Eric Watkins:

Yeah. So there was some feedback, recently, a prospective client to two prospective clients who said they listened to the gross show, and that Jeff's their favorite. So Scott, and I talked and we immediately decided we're not going to take their business.

Jeff Winters:

Here's the thing, they didn't say that Jeff is their favorite. They said the sheriff is I swear share now is that because they liked the character, they don't know my name. We shall see. But to them and to all the other fans and listeners where I am their favorite. I thank you. And I'm going to bring it this week, because is every week I am looking on LinkedIn, trying to find folks that are giving great advice, and more importantly, trying to find folks that are live. Controversial live today. I'm disagreeing with science and data. What are you gonna do? But first, let us begin with the truth. They call that a tease by the way meeting. Okay. He's Matt. Pope. So hope so. Matt Pope's a PhD, by the way, not nothing. He says we must hold ourselves accountable before we hold others accountable example, does our leadership ability meet established standards? Oops, there aren't any lacking any formal inspection requirements as and I'm adding four leaders. We need to create our own. I think the message here Eric is are you as a leader? Do you have standards? Do you publish that? And are you holding yourself accountable to your team?

Eric Watkins:

Yeah, I agree with this 1,000%. And, frankly, I kind of feel guilty when I don't. Right? Do you feel a little guilty? Like when you if you ask something of someone that you wouldn't do yourself? So I think the one benefit we have here is that everybody is typically promoted from internally. So they've played the role of the people they're managing in a lot of different situations. And then I think it's easier, you know, you you went through what they went through, you can empathize more, and oftentimes, you can hop back in, and, you know, hope like you show them that, yes, I'm not asking you to do anything that I didn't do previously. And that I won't do now. And that's in regard to the job. But I do think in general, sometimes, you know, the leadership team, it's easy for them to take a pass. Yeah, we don't need to be as accountable as what we're asking of everybody else. And that's just not it's not a good recipe for success. Let

Jeff Winters:

me share something we do here. We have this a player score, and every single person in the company including our CEO, including Eric, including Jeff, the sheriff, we all have a score that shows each and every person how we are doing at this company. And anybody can look at my score. And that is what I am held accountable to it's got never seen it and I think it's great I think and also what you need to avoid little concept here also rhymes. Rules rules for the but not for me. People hate this. Yeah, I have rules that I enforce on you. and accountability that I bring to you. But it doesn't apply to me. Yep. You got to be on time for meetings. I don't gotta be people hate that. That's

Eric Watkins:

a really good point.

Jeff Winters:

Thank you.

Eric Watkins:

Good find Yeah, it was it was up from

Jeff Winters:

that was from I gotta go back now. We'll get it later Matt. Pope

Eric Watkins:

so Matt Pope's PhD P marca haich

Jeff Winters:

D smart guy. Smart shit. All right. Next A little more tactical mixing it up today before we get to the controversy. Gaetano Nino denari says

Eric Watkins:

I give you about a 70% shot that you got that right? I really liked this guy read some

Jeff Winters:

stuff. Short Form vertical video is the most engaging content medium. Yet I don't really see many b2b companies leveraging it. If you look where the world is going, it's about quick hits of content. Dopamine there's a ton of ways b2b companies could use vertical videos, customer success stories. 62nd product feature explainers how to do something cool with your product entertaining Did you know strong point of view talking head videos, but all I see b2b companies doing is chopping up clips of their boring podcast probably like this. And running ads to those clips. It's a played out strategy at this point. I love short form vertical. Yeah, video. That's

Eric Watkins:

great. That's great. I mean, if I can't watch it on my phone, I'm probably not watching it. And if it does, if it's not enticing, and, you know, pulls up in my feed, I think that's the that's a really good point.

Jeff Winters:

Yep. And I'm actually going to tie this back into a tip for sales later. So a little a double tees, a double tees. Last and this is a lie, the lie, people are gonna hate this. I know people are gonna hate this. But I'm going to explain myself. Toby says your manager has more impact on your mental health than your therapist or your doctor. Having a good boss can literally change your life. Okay. So here's, here's what here's, here's where I'm at on this. Okay. And Eric and I were reading the same books. We're doing our philosophy, we're doing our Zen. Okay.

Eric Watkins:

It is, stoicism is different than Zen, I would say stoicism, Zen. Thank you. stoics. Yeah, different. But go ahead. Please continue.

Jeff Winters:

He's read three chapters. He's a damn expert. I think we need to decouple our managers behavior, from how we react to anyone, including your manager. I think this is a lie, because I would encourage us not to say that people like managers can't negative I'm not a mental health expert. Let me be clear, I'm an expert in very few things. In fact, being LinkedIn Sheriff may be the only one. I digress. I think we need to focus on how we react, not what the action was. That's my that's why it sure says, What do you think here? Yeah,

Eric Watkins:

I agree with you. And I disagree with you. The first part I agree with you on is, well, I guess I should say, I don't think it's a full lie. But I 100% agree with you that happiness, or our mental health is 100%. In our control, we're reading the book Happiness Advantage. Yeah. It's a great example where it talks about how what you control your happiness at the end of the day, it's all relative, yes, there's people with way far less in worse adversity than you've ever gone through, that are way happier than you. Why is that? Is it because of the events that happened to them? No, it's because they control their happiness. So I 100% agree with you that as a individual, you should look at this and not ever let a manager dictate your mental health or your happiness. On the second hand, if you are a manager or leader, I think you can have a strong strong impact on your team members. Mental Health.

Jeff Winters:

Yeah. Okay. Fair enough. Let me tell you what we're not saying no out there. Like, we're not saying like, look, there's so much written and studied in the world of mental health. We don't we don't know shit. Like, yeah, like, in the grand scheme, like, I don't know, if they like, you know, there's mental health is, in our opinion, I'm not 100% of your control. Like there's there's stuff with people's mental health that that is not within their control. Sure. I'm just purely saying, in my opinion, you have far more control over how you react to some one or something than you think and powering our listeners and people not to be resigned to the fact of like, I have a shitty manager who's an ass Yeah, makes my life terrible. My life's terrible, and I'm gonna go to work and my life's gonna be terrible. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, I am going to react differently. I'm gonna react differently. I am going to choose to react a certain way. That's the message I'm trying to get across here to our loyal faithful listener.

Eric Watkins:

Let's go one step further. Quick tip, quick, quick tip of how you turn any bad manager into a good man and quick tip every day. Write down as hard as it may be. Write down three things that your manager helps you with, or why you respect them or why why this is actually a good experience that you're going through. Good if you do that day in A day out day in and day out, eventually, all sudden that bad manager isn't gonna be very bad anymore. And oftentimes we we impose our views on people so much. So they turn into the people that we, we think they are is a Pygmalion effect, right? Like if you don't yeah the Pygmalion effect it isn't when you can we check that out is that how you pronounce that? That is exactly how you pronounce it the

Jeff Winters:

pig million if

Eric Watkins:

you didn't read the book? I'm reading the book. Oh, yeah, yeah. But it talks about you know, if you have someone who is aspiring to be good at something, the more you tell them that they are going to be good at that, the more likely they are to succeed. The

Jeff Winters:

Pygmalion Effect Correct. That was a fun one. I now know why people think I'm their favorite character on this podcast.

Eric Watkins:

Why is that? Back Back to your back to you? Well, Jeff, I gotta give credit where credit's due. And Katie did a great job picking those LinkedIn topics for you today. Those were, those are great samples to go through. Thank you, Katie. Next topic 5050. Jeff, you're gonna have to fill the shoes today.

Jeff Winters:

I'm back back. The people have asked and I have answered two segments for me today.

Eric Watkins:

How do you like that you'd like the SAT? You feel you feel just a little bit more important when you get to go after Scott sound?

Jeff Winters:

Yeah, I feel more important to having a sound effect. Like I wonder what would that would do to the morale of people if they all had a different sound have entered the room or began speaking. So 50 for 50 today, not going to create our own This is Scott's thing. But what we are going to do is we're going to go back in the time machine, and review of 50 for 50. That I don't think got enough justice, I don't think got enough play because it is both extremely important and really unique. And it is the idea of having a mobility culture. And for those who don't immediately recall this concept, effectively, what Scott was saying is, we're going to start any company ever again. One thing we'd immediately instill is that people can and should and will move and have a lot of different jobs within the organization, and underline in different disciplines in different disciplines. And for us, what that means is, the vast majority of people here start on the phone as an SDR. And from there, the possibilities are literally endless at our organization. Eric started as an intern, now he's the president. We have people on our accounting team, who started as STRS we have people on our recruiting team on our creative to every part of the business has people that started as an SDR and then went to a different position or discipline and then moved around and came back. And in addition, so that's that's piece one and piece two is we've got folks that move forward, Move back, move sideways. And it happens pretty quickly. And it is so unique and so beneficial to this organization. And I was thinking of another company that does this Eric enterprise enterprise rent and car fellow St. Louis company, maybe there's something in the water about great St. Louis companies that starts out with everybody. I think I think this is true. If it's not true, it's close to true. The Pygmalion Effect speaking of close to true, the everyone at Enterprise rent a car, which is a huge company, I think last I read it was like a $20 billion revenue company, starts washing cars, starts washing cars, and then works their way up. And it is it provides this incredibly different environment and scope through which you view the business as an individual contributor, but as a leader, it just gives you so much flexibility. When you have people who leave or you have people who maybe aren't doing as good a job as they can. Like you have this enormous base of people to go yep. Elliot was an account manager. He's run accounts. He's done sales, he's managed sales. He's been on the phones he's collected AR like people who have done all these things. How can we take this person who now has all the skills and put them somewhere that they can thrive for themselves in the business? Yeah,

Eric Watkins:

this is this is huge. And this is one of those things that we never even really thought about until we started this podcast and it became a 5050. But we look back. And we looked at all of our leaders and realized all of the different roles that they've played along the way. So I'm gonna give you one benefit for people and then I'm going to give you one benefit for the company for this. So from a people perspective, I think the advantage of this is a lot of times to progress your skills that are your career, you have to move companies these days. And so unfortunately, what happens is you build up all these relationships, you build up all this equity and knowledge at the company that you're at. And then the next day, you're out the door, and you have to start from ground zero. In this when people know that they can move around and have different opportunities, it helps Sure. It not only helps the employees from a skill set perspective, and how to make them more desirable in the future for whatever role they want to play, but also helps just the, you know, the retention of employees and keeping your good people here, when they know there's more opportunities. The only thing is for the company where this really shows itself, where I feel like at least is at the higher levels as people progress through the organization. Because you're not as concerned as I think most companies when they have a issue with sales, they go figure out okay, well, we need to go find a new sales leader. That's right, or they have an issue in operations. And we need to go outside and find a new operations leader. Here. You can pivot people to your biggest problems as the organization and you don't have to be worried about, well, that person doesn't have the experience there because they've done these different roles throughout the time. It's something we're literally in the process of doing right now we have our VPS who have all played a variety of different roles on the outbound side that are now all taking smaller teams on really Digitas make make things a little bit smaller, be a little closer to the clients closer to the people. I couldn't do that. If Jessica it wasn't a SDR, a PSM did training random implementations, did account management. Same thing with will did for different divisions, Amy has done a variety, you know, it's just it's a huge benefit for your company. It

Jeff Winters:

does have downside though. Like it's gotta it's got a couple of downsides, which we should discuss and talk about how you how you mitigate risk against. So one downside is it breeds very, it can breed very insular thinking, like you grew up doing this. So like, you're going to sort of continue doing what you've done. So you got to be careful with the people you pick. I mean, if you have good, honest, disagreeable, sometimes people that that is very important. Otherwise, you just get complete. One track thinking. The other is you don't get perspectives from the outside world uncertain thing. Sure. And so it's really important to have, of course, like the occasion, I'm the occasional outside hire here. So I think that is important. But also whether it's consultants or just making sure you're staying really engaged with the market that you're in or what have you. Sure. But but the benefits far outweigh it. Like knowing that somebody we put in a job has already worked here in different jobs, like generally speaking, high performers are high performers, wherever you give them. And I think where people really miss on this, Eric, is people are so like they so overestimate how different being an account manager is from a salesperson, or even an SDR is from an accountant. I mean, it's that. Don't Don't go nuts with that.

Eric Watkins:

Sure. Yeah. I the other. The other downside to this is I would say is you don't really burn the bridge. So for example, if you're going to do this, you're just not going to get people that are going to willing, be willing to take those risks. If you don't have a fallback plan. If it doesn't pan out, yeah, like there's always got to be a spot in the organization. And I think it's sometimes when you do this too much, people are just like, well, this is just going to be my thing for the next, however, so long, so if it doesn't work out, I'll just go, whatever. So you could lose a little bit of accountability in it. But again, I think the cons are the pros way outweigh the cons. And I think the you're thinking about your people like when you get when I go from being managed by I'm just going to use two names here but Elliot Nestor to Katie pain for examples of land use last names, last names. Yeah,

Jeff Winters:

these are real people.

Eric Watkins:

But you know, Elliott is going to bring a skill set of sales business acumen done accounts for a long time, different perspective on thing, Katie, operationally, very sound understands how, how business works and structure and keep it you know, consistency and different items like that. Like when you look at those two, I'm getting, I'm getting exposure to two very different leaders, which is really helping me in my career, which I think is a big deal.

Jeff Winters:

Yeah. And it's, you know, last last thing we'll say on the topic, some people aren't right for this. Sure enough, but, you know, we have a lot of conversations, even me and Eric, I know you're like this, you know, we're we're talking about ourselves. And what we're gonna do is you're my answer, I would say, put me wherever you want. Yeah, like whatever you want me to do. Yeah, I'll do it. And when you start getting people in your organization that just go, you know, Hey, you dropped me in the forest. I'll find my way out. Yep. It makes for a real great organization and a fun group to work with.

Eric Watkins:

Yep. Very good point. Good job. It was alright, that was alright. Yeah, we did it. We did our best. We did our best. But you know what? It's time to head over to the mind. Cube to pick x.

Jeff Winters:

Cube the pick x. You're so demanding with the pick x.

Eric Watkins:

You know you just people want to hear. We want to hear it. You're their favorite character is their favorite sound. They love the pickaxe, you need a

Jeff Winters:

character maybe that'll help your minor help your favorables. The

Eric Watkins:

minor? Yeah. All right. So for today, we're gonna keep this one really, really simple. But it's a huge mistake that everybody makes in regard to your STRS. And I'm where I feel like this mistake gets made even more is if you have STRS internally. So listen up, if you're a company that's currently managing STRS internally, Do not overload your STRS with information about their company and services, and what they need to do to set an appointment, the information they need, I like to use a funnel, you have all this information, you have case studies, your website, your brochures, your videos, your tribal knowledge from 10 years in business, and people try to give their make their SDR an expert right in the beginning. But it all goes through a funnel. And they really only need so much to be able to set an appointment. Because at the end of the day, what are they trying to do? They're trying to open the door, get the person excited, make sure they show up. So you can go out and discover more about them and talk about your services. So I'm gonna give you the shortlist. Because I feel like I can make a cold call with just this information and knowing nothing else about the industry about anything else. First thing target market. Got to know who you're targeting. Got to know the minimum qualifiers got to know the industries we can and can't work at got to know the geographies? And then what are those people care about? Like generally, I don't need to know the specifics of every single position that I could potentially talk to. But ultimately, what I'm calling about the service or product, what do people care about? Then from there? What are the three problems we solve for those people? Just three, go to five if you want, but keep it small, you don't need 20 different problems that you solve? What are the three? And what are the ones that are the most common that people want solved? Pick those have those three problems have three case studies. And I would put case studies in Asterix just a little story. Like we they don't need a full blown case study, just a little story that goes around how you've solved that problem for others. And in that story, it should say how you solve that better than your competitors, or better than status quo. And that's it. That's it. That's all I need to go set an appointment on your behalf, because I'm going to ask questions and information is going to come up. And when in doubt. And they asked me a question. Well, what about the G five receptor? Or what about the Ag three? 4000? You know what, that's a great question. I what I'd recommend is I set you up with Jeff, because he's the expert when it comes to this, and you guys can have a great conversation about that. What's your calendar look like tomorrow? Yep, I pivot to the appointment.

Jeff Winters:

There we go. So. So this is a little bit of a, it's a little bit of a failsafe mechanism. Like, the less you know, the less you can say and less you can say the more apt you are to go from cold call to appointment faster, exactly faster, because we've all seen SDRs fall into the trap of I know a lot. And I'm gonna tell you a lot. And that friends we have a word for, oh, maybe two words. Many pitching? Yep. We don't need many pitching. We want SDRs. And we want pitching there is no mini pitching minute pitching is no good. I don't need you giving the prospect more information. So they can make a decision beyond I want to meet her I don't that that's that's the extent of it. And any more than that, you start to get into a situation where you have the SDR doing the job of the salesperson and it's not to say the SDR can't be a great salesperson. Many of them can't, many of them do become great salespeople. But in that moment, I don't want the SDR pitch in that prospect. I want my salesperson pitch on that prospect. So let's I think Eric's advice is great. The other thing about it is it really focuses you on the most important elements of the cold call, which I think we'd all agree are the volume and the tone. Yep. How many he makin? And how do you sound? So that's my analysis of of what you said and why it's important.

Eric Watkins:

Yeah, and I think the what I am not saying is you shouldn't ask good questions, and you shouldn't let prospects talk and you shouldn't dive deeper and you shouldn't actively listen. But what we are saying is it's not your job to sell this prospect on your service. You are selling the appointment. That's right. Why is that appointment? Why is that 15 to 30 minutes valuable for for you to sit down with us. So that's what we got from the mind today from the minor. I need a better Ed kid. The minor doesn't work. I don't like that. What can we do? You know, we'll think about it. We'll think about it. Let's see what the viewers think. You know, we got a lot of people out there listening. Maybe somebody's got some something better.

Jeff Winters:

Please suggest something to Eric. We love alliteration. Yeah.

Eric Watkins:

Yes. Right. Yeah, exactly. All right. Tales from sales. What are you going to do with all these leads now that we kept it simple on the call. So something

Jeff Winters:

that's coming up frequently now, for me and I, I walked through this whole exercise on the last podcast that I did, man, nobody commented, the meeting Eric or Scott, it was a great exercise, and they sort of poo pooed it. But the bottom line is I, I have I have a really good working theory, especially in more transactional sales, where sales cycles are shorter that the difference between greatness and goodness is follow up. His follow up. And one aspect that we noticed with our best sellers, is that their follow up poopoo hold

Eric Watkins:

on poo pooed it, we didn't poopoo it,

Jeff Winters:

nobody jumped on it. So I love that she's awesome. Okay, well, what

Eric Watkins:

I got pat your back, I'll come over there and pet your back.

Jeff Winters:

Exactly what I need. I thrive on positive feedback. Honest

Eric Watkins:

or not. But But more to the point. So your manager impacts your happiness. More

Jeff Winters:

to the point where to the point, I know that multimedia follow up based on the data that I've looked at multimedia follow up is one of those separators between greatness and goodness in sales reps and sales, person results. And we talked about it in two truths and a lie, the vertical video cellphone video, I want to give you a couple of ideas. So first, I do this all time. I shoot videos of myself as the chief revenue officer, and I send them to prospects. I sit down with sales reps, they tell me about the prospect. If we think it's a good fit, I want to be engaged, I want to be involved. And I'll send I'll send a little video and let them know, Hey, I'm engaged on this. I've talked to the sales rep, we think this could be a good fit. We'd love to, you know, that will take a ton of time with a call, but want to make sure that you know that I've looked at this and it's an it's a good fit. Next, LinkedIn is obvious, but it's also underutilized, not because people don't know how to use LinkedIn and the follow up process. LinkedIn is think of LinkedIn just as an email touching the follow up process even though you haven't connected. Even though you haven't been corresponding on LinkedIn, you're gonna send a case study on email. Are you going to send a little snippet or something interesting? Send it on LinkedIn. Next, I don't like FaceTime. Some people do cold FaceTiming not my thing. Some people do it. Texting. I am always a proponent of texting. Once you feel you've had the permission, the way that I get that permission is Hey, look. As far as followup goes, and people sometimes phone sometimes email text is easier for most is that okay? If I text you? How are you mixing up those mediums? Am I sending a video on LinkedIn? Am I doing an audio voicemail on LinkedIn? How am I calling there are so many different mediums and I'm what I'm telling you as our loyal loving audience is the follow up variety of mediums matters and will help you increase close rates.

Eric Watkins:

Love this you know my Jeff, this is such a great idea. Great job. Thank you did awesome. Everybody hear that? Thank you. That's the pat on your back. The I think this is important for I think about myself. That's my theory on it. I'm very text heavy. Like Scott text me you text me like family text, like I'm usually more accessible via text, really

Jeff Winters:

Millennials more accessible, but imagine, imagine that somebody take that down as a note, however,

Eric Watkins:

you will stand out more, it's very easy for you to send me a text and it'll just get lost in the text. But if I pop into my LinkedIn and I see a video that's gonna stand out a little bit more so it's not that I love LinkedIn like I may not even be a LinkedIn communicator but I'll check my LinkedIn just about every day or every other day I pop in there and I see a video like I think that's the importance of you need to hit them in channels even though that they don't they may not use those channels as much if that's the case you may stand out more

Jeff Winters:

don't forget mail don't forget sending a package

Eric Watkins:

yeah

Jeff Winters:

I it's just so easily email that's the reality that's that's what this is all saying it's like it's so easy to email like I'm just going to email an email and email please stop please stop us variety.

Eric Watkins:

Great job tales from sales. Tell the man himself the man the myth, the legend the sheriff Thank you self proclaimed favorite character on the show. No doubt. I guess not self proclaimed I guess actually proclaims to people that doesn't count. The people have spoken. We need to put a poll up. I bet Scott's Favorite honestly.

Jeff Winters:

All right, favorite.

Eric Watkins:

Who's your favorite? All right. The moment you've all been waiting for that horn sounds different, doesn't it? Has

Jeff Winters:

that gotten longer?

Eric Watkins:

It's gotten longer and a little louder. Yeah. I think Brian switched it up on us producer

Jeff Winters:

says no, I see. Yeah, I

Eric Watkins:

think that's gotten a little longer. And I like it. Because this is the most important section of the show to do or not to do. You're out there in the wild in the real world. You're trying to figure out should I do this? Or should I not do this? We try to shy away from sports on here. You know, we do too many, you know, we do too much too many sports. But you know what, I can't help but notice. It was 70 degrees a couple of days ago. And you know, what happens when the weather starts getting nice, Jeff, what's a we start hitting the golf course? Yeah, we start hitting the golf course you're playing with your buddies, there might be a friendly little wager on the line or not.

Jeff Winters:

We're gambling.

Eric Watkins:

Here is my question. Should you take two off the First Tee? Or not? Should you have prepared you got your practice swings and you are in the game? It is a real score. You don't get to Off The First Tee? Or should you be allowed to take two off the first all

Jeff Winters:

the sudden we're Barstool Sports now. Alright, I'm gonna give you a two off the if you're still with us, and you don't know shit about golf. Now I'm going to explain this. So the idea in golf, obviously, is you played nine or more often 18 holes, and you're competing against one to three other people in your group of four. And the idea is that you're going to have you're going to be on the first tee, and you're going to hit either one shot, or you're going to hit one shot with the option to hit a second one because it's the first shot you've hit all day. Right?

Eric Watkins:

Right.

Jeff Winters:

I'm gonna tell you, so maybe

Eric Watkins:

the driving range was close. Maybe you know, there could be circumstances there

Jeff Winters:

could be there could be circumstances. And you can apply this to life. Like you can think of all the other places where you get a practice shot before you go. It's real in life. But actually, you can't because that shit doesn't happen in real life in real life. You don't get to be on a sales call and go oh, yeah, I get to Off The First Tee. Let me start this call over. You don't get? You can try it. You could try it. You don't get to be sending out an invoice and screw it up by$100,000 Oh, sorry, I needed to get two off the First Tee. That was the first invoice I sent out this morning. I haven't had my coffee yet. Absolutely not. Nowhere in life. Do you get a practice? Do you get a mulligan? Do you get a screw up? Except for when you're screwing around with Todd and Brody? On damn golf course you hit one shot, you get one shot in life. That's what you do. I

Eric Watkins:

completely disagree. Of course you don't. Yeah, you should absolutely get to. And here's my thing is you shouldn't waver back and forth. It's a known rule. No matter what. What your plan. What are the stakes? Unless you're on the PGA Tour. We're doing two shots off the First Tee.

Jeff Winters:

Isn't it unusual though? Like when I start going down? Because I could tell you flinched a little like in life. No, I'm dead serious. Where else do does this happen? Where else do you get to do a thing with no consequences? And then try it again. Like where I'm not I don't even know

Eric Watkins:

nowhere ya know where you're right. You're right

Jeff Winters:

to try shit in real life where there's an actual competition. God now we do that again. Oh, well, maybe at a podcast. Is that what you meant? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Other than maybe here. Yeah. Good point.

Eric Watkins:

Yeah. This is actually our second off the tee. We recorded a podcast earlier show because you're

Jeff Winters:

right we don't do that. I don't think you should be able to do second take some podcasts either now and I'm saying it Yeah,

Eric Watkins:

no, you're right. Let's do a live live on LinkedIn. Lay it out there. Lay it out there your first take. I respect it. Yeah. Okay. What an episode today appreciate it. Jeff. Missed our missed our boy. But he'll be back next week too. And the gang will be here. As always, thank you for listening. Hopefully we'll you took away a couple things to help take that business to $50 million and beyond. You know, that's what we're here for. Let's grow

Jeff Winters:

as your favorite character. Let's

Unknown:

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People on this episode

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Eric Watkins

Co-host
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Jeff Winters

Co-host
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Scott Scully

Co-host