In this episode, host Eric Watkins welcomes Sam Parker, a seasoned business veteran with over 25 years of experience and a wealth of insights on leadership and culture development. Sam is the co-author of the impactful book “212° The Extra Degree." His philosophy centers on the idea that the difference between 211 and 212 degrees, while seemingly small, can lead to exponential rewards. Sam also highlights his other noteworthy works like “Lead Simply,” “Cross The Line,” and “Love Your People,” which offer listeners a glimpse into strategies for building resilient teams and nurturing meaningful relationships.
Visit Sam's Website
Regenerate
Thanks for listening!
In this episode, host Eric Watkins welcomes Sam Parker, a seasoned business veteran with over 25 years of experience and a wealth of insights on leadership and culture development. Sam is the co-author of the impactful book “212° The Extra Degree." His philosophy centers on the idea that the difference between 211 and 212 degrees, while seemingly small, can lead to exponential rewards. Sam also highlights his other noteworthy works like “Lead Simply,” “Cross The Line,” and “Love Your People,” which offer listeners a glimpse into strategies for building resilient teams and nurturing meaningful relationships.
Visit Sam's Website
Regenerate
Thanks for listening!
Hey, everybody. And
Eric Watkins:welcome everybody. Back to the gross show. I'm here with my special gross guests, Sam Parker, Sam, how are we doing today?
Unknown:Doing great, thanks. How are you?
Eric Watkins:Great, I'm doing great. Thank you so much for joining us. Today, everybody, we're gonna be talking to Sam about his book to 12. And he's talking about that extra degree that you can take yourself as an individual you can take your company to, to that next level, that's the degree of of boiling and the incredible results that just going that one extra degree and what that brings to your life and to your company in general. But, Sam, while we get started, let's just talk about the book, how'd you come about writing this book in the first place? What inspired you
Unknown:as a common combination of a number of different things that happened over many years. So it's kind of like a 212 message in itself, really. I began my career in sales, carrying a bag for Office products, and then pharmaceuticals and also insurance and financial products sales. And at the beginning, I was into I loved my tapes I loved what I ended up doing. The work I ended up doing now is something that I love listening to from other people. And one of my one of the people I really liked was, his name was Brian Tracy still out there. And he was talking about the psychology of selling and he was on the stage. And he's talking about how, in horse racing, the difference between the horse that finished first and the horse that finished second was usually very, very small, but the earnings difference could be exponentially different. And that's stuck with me. So you fast forward about I don't know what it was maybe eight, eight years or so 10 years, maybe. And I'm sitting with somebody at an early morning breakfast meeting before we both went to work, we did not work with each other. But this is I just believe in connecting with people. And it's, it's been very profitable to me and very enjoyable to. And he shared with me, we were talking about motivating salespeople when he shared with me how his boss used the boiling point as a metaphor to inspire people to try just a little bit harder. And that click the Brian Tracy thing clicked. And I thought, Huh, I wonder how many places there are these small differences that make it have a big impact on results. And I started doing the research. And over the course of the next eight to, I would say 10 months, I wrote this little practically this little pamphlet almost of a book. And it was the first iteration of it. And it went on through a series of other things went on to really be important to a lot of people if you're really lucky to have been a part of it, frankly.
Eric Watkins:Yeah, well, congratulations. It's been incredible the success of it. And this was a book that was actually given to me. I think the first time I read it was seven years ago. And as soon as I read it, it made an impact. It's something that you truly think about, you know, you keep top of mind throughout your career and really makes an impact on your life. So we have a lot of viewers out there that probably haven't read the book, could you give us just a little bit of a synopsis of the book, just so they have an idea. The whole
Unknown:idea here is it's it's really about creating awareness around the idea of these 25 words to 111 degrees waters hot at 212 degrees of boils. And with boiling water comes steam in with steam, you can power a train just one extra degree makes all the difference. See that? Between 2011 degree yet you got one or 211 degrees and you've got something that's hot, right? Right, you don't want that one extra degree, you've got something that's powerful, and useful. And I actually messed up, that's 32 words at the beginning. But the basic preamble message really is so tight. And once you hear that thing, for a lot of people, it translates into kind of a new way to frame a little more effort and attention at the surface. And that's what's kind of neat about it. It invites people in because it's very approachable, right. But as you are with the message for a long time, you start to realize that it's really about much more than that. It's about actually trying exponentially harder in that last degree. And, you know, as I look back at the book, and the original version of the book, I don't know that I mentioned that. And I'm starting to think I should have and I'm starting to think about doing maybe doing something with that,
Eric Watkins:maybe to 13 or 13 Yeah, and I hear your first
Unknown:Yeah, yeah, no, no, I can't be to 13 but it can be something along those lines and, you know, to 12 You know, again, I feel really lucky to have had this in my life because it really helped a lot of people. And I tell you, once you get a message like that, that's so tight, and it's proven like that, it's hard, you don't want to deviate from the core message. Right? So and also you don't want to you know, I've had people that want to do different versions of it to 12 for this to 12 for that and I'm like it just takes away from the really the the Jain to an authentic message that it was done in the very beginning, instead of just trying to be contrived and trying to pull out an extra piece of the market, you know, based on this are 212 for teachers or 212. For this, I just the basic message is the true message.
Eric Watkins:Sure, in the book, you talk a lot about servant leadership of that being a really important part of the 212. Philosophy. Can you just give your thoughts on servant leadership and why that's so important?
Unknown:Well, leading by control, is exhausting for everybody. And nobody likes it. Even leaders who make it up through the ranks and become leaders, they know that that's not something people are motivated by Sure you can, you can motivate by, you know, by fear for a little while, but you're not going to keep people and you're not going to have people who are into what you you're not going to create an environment that is an environment that is conducive to teamwork, for very long by, by, by trying to control through your leadership. So I think what a leader should do, actually, I wrote a book called Lead simply. And my my thought is this, it's really three things it's model, connect, involve model, the behavior you want to see, connect with the people you lead, and involve them as much as possible. And those three things handle probably 90 Well, of the leadership part beyond you know, mission, vision, values, all that kind of stuff. When it comes down to the day to day stuff that goes on in workplaces. It's the leaders job to set the tone, everybody knows this, I don't want to be cliche here. But I can tell you for having been in the workforce for a very long time been a leader myself, working with a lot of other organizations, you know, people know all the cliches they know all the answers, but not enough of them do it. And it always goes back to the leader. So if a leader is serving their people, how does a leader serve their people? What should a leader be doing other than that, really, I mean, strategy and vision. And these types of high. Lofty things are, are things that are, should be done with everybody. And that's where the involved piece of that model collective ball comes in. If you're involving people, then you're getting more buy in, for example. And that's a way to serve your people because you're actively involving them. And then they're more engaged or more likely to be engaged rather than not engaged, which can be a costly thing to and you can miss out on a lot of good if, if it's just a bunch of leaders sitting around setting the tone on their own. So I'm not sure that answer to but servant leadership or serving, I mean, to me, there is nothing, no other way to approach leadership than that. Anything else kind of feels ugly, in a way?
Eric Watkins:Sam, I love the model of what you just said, model, connect, involve Connect is an interesting piece for me, especially at our organization. We have a lot of young leaders, and they struggle with the balance of connecting, you know, it might have been appear at one point and now you're leading that individual. So they may over connect, and not be enough of a leader with that individual. How do you make sure people connect in the right way, where at the end of the day, there's still job to get done, there's still a vision to accomplish. But I do care about you. I am your leader, I'm not necessarily your friends, so to speak.
Unknown:Well, there's a lot of variables that come into play on that answer. And I've been around for a long time, and I'm of the older school. So I don't want to get old old guy on your and and go I know things have changed. I have some adult children, one of whom is a newer manager. So I hear the frustrations of that experience for her. And also the good things I hear as well. So it's nice, but to me, with a you know, more than 30 years in the workforce. I'm at a point where I've heard everything, right. And I've I'm certain I haven't heard everything, there's always an idea
Eric Watkins:what you're saying,
Unknown:I guess. Right? So it's, it's so when I sit there and I think about how do you connect with your people, you it is it all the time thing, and I think that's where people drop the ball? You know, I say I have this thought that all of what we do. All of it is a joint effort, right? And a continual effort that requires solid and ongoing reinforcement internally and externally. That means within ourselves as individuals, and then amongst ourselves as either leaders and colleagues or just peer to peer right? And that need for that solid, ongoing reinforcement that never, ever, ever, ever ends. I mean, I'm talking about this. Now I've done this for a living for a long time, and I still need that reinforced has been and, and I'm highly aware of it, because I'm writing about it thinking about it non at that bone constantly, as part, you know, as a very important part of my career. And I still make those some of those mistakes, hopefully not as many, because I'm highly aware of it. But we still drop, I mean, everybody drops the ball. So really the key issue, to your point is that it's really about solid and ongoing reinforcement that never ends. And, and that's where I think all of it does, in fact, or when there are mistakes made, that is where it ended. So somebody has a meeting, you know, and they have everybody, all hands, everybody comes in, everybody's pumped up for a couple of days, they'd have a guy like me come in, or whatever and talk and then they leave. And that meeting has to be, that's an opportunity to inspire for sure to spark something. But really, that meeting is about is about what happens three weeks from then, or two quarters from that, or two years from that and right, that's what you're looking for. But that only happens by frequent connection. And we all know it on both sides of the meaning leadership side, but also the team side, the staff side, everybody knows that connection leads to more opportunities, which tends to lead to better results. That is just a fact we know it but some reason we sometimes shy away from it, or we just forget because we haven't been reinforcing that message constantly.
Eric Watkins:Sure. One, one other thing you talked about in the book is just the importance of communication. What do you think is the right balance of communication, and where as a leader, or you may be hovering or over communicating versus just the right amount of communication? And obviously, we've all experienced leaders at certain times where you just don't communicate at all we know that's not a good spot to be either.
Unknown:Yeah, there's a lot of those leaders out there. I remember, this is an anecdote, but it's an important one, because it's kind of an an amalgam of a lot of other things that I've heard over the years. I was once being, I was once talking with a team at a large organization, I was going to be speaking to 400 leaders, I asked what they wanted me to communicate and what they wanted to have happen. And they said, well, we want all these leaders to we want to make sure they take what you say, and they take it back to their teams, and they connect with their teams, and they do it off. And I said, aren't they doing it now? And they said no. And that's what we want you to fix? I said, Well, if they're not doing that, what are they doing? And if people laughed on the call, and and I didn't mean it to be smart, it just came I mean, like a smart aleck. But it did it just i What are you doing? If you're not connecting with your people? I just don't understand that. So but that's another I didn't answer your question.
Eric Watkins:Yeah, just in a sense, yoke, connecting communicating with your team. And I think there's, you know, we have a not to relate everything to here. But we have a lot of people internally who don't have as many remote employees. So there's a lot of communication going on throughout the day. And I think at some point, you can have so much communication that you lose sight of maybe the the key milestones or key objectives of what's going on. And then on the other side of the spectrum, you have a leader who you may talk to once a quarter, and they never check in with you. And you feel like you're not alone on an island, if
Unknown:you if that's the kind of so the ladder that you just mentioned, if there's a leader like that, I questioned as to why that leader is in a leadership position. Sure, you know, what, what makes that happen, they better be good at something, I mean, it must be exponentially wonderful at something if they're letting that happen. Because there's always a new leader who can change that situation. So and again, it always folds to the leader who has the ability or responsibility to put the right players in the right positions on the field, you know, cliche, but so I think connecting with connecting the the amount of connecting with people really is going to be dependent upon what the work is. And I always had a motto at our company, let's make sure we over communicate, because I always believed I would I would stress, you know, I'd be very concerned that I'd be missing and maybe it was wrong, I don't know, but that I may be missing out on someone's good idea, or I wouldn't be told something because somebody thought it wasn't their place. And that's a scary spot to be in. Now. That's the ground, the micromanaging side. So if you're thinking about that side, you definitely don't want to be micromanaging. And that's why that involved piece of the model connect involved in involving people, showing them things and teaching them how to be leaders, future leaders. You do that by exposing them to things right, so but if you're micromanaging people, there's two things going on there. One is if you're the leader, you got to ask yourself if you're micromanaging, why do you not trust the person you hired and put in that role to do their job? But if you're the one being be micromanaged. You got to ask yourself, why does this person feel like they need to micromanage me? Where am I dropping the ball to make them feel like now? This is where the variables come into play, right? Because then you have, you could have a personality problem too. So it's never clear. It's just never, I should say never. It's rare. It's rarely just clear cut. Right?
Eric Watkins:That's great. And I think that the micromanaging piece the other way is very interesting. I love how you have that. I love how you said that. And I haven't heard that spin on it. But if you're being micromanage, there's probably some reason, you know, at the end of the day, on why that's the case and to look internally at that. So we talked, you know, we're talking about this in the sense of businesses and how they operate. What about people just internally going that extra degree when you've seen different individuals, you know, who have used this book, to really take them to the next level? What are some of the steps that they've done to be able to do so?
Unknown:Well, I think one of the one of the biggest things that I've heard from people, and that I talked about is not to go back to the leadership model, but the word is the same, it's connecting with other people, and making sure that you're, you know, making sure that you're establishing relationships and strengthening those relationships, reinforcing those relationships, making sure that you stay with that, because relationships and in the long term, relationships are going to be everything, in terms of that more enjoyable day that everybody wants. Personally, certainly, but on a professional level, you want a culture that's engaged, right, enthusiastic and engaged culture, and that comes from people connecting with one another. And there's problems and there never will be, I don't know that it can ever be perfect, because of different backgrounds and all the variables that go into that. But you can certainly create an environment that is what Stephen Covey called a high trust environment where people can communicate with one another feel like there's not going to be a consequent a negative consequence. Because they said, you know, give somebody feedback, for example, that somebody else didn't like, I mean, but the balance on that, you know, that's tough, because you get it, somebody who's maybe what I would call overly sensitive, but really good at their job. So then you got to kind of balance that because you don't want that person upset because they're really good at doing X. But they also have to be a little more approachable a little bit, you know, more open to connecting with other people on the team. But but they, you know, they like to be you know, is Peter Drucker he's got a little book, little tiny book, that's probably an hour long as long as my books. And Peter Drucker is old management thinker. And he talks about the importance of manners, and how they're the lubrication for an organization. And something so small that we all kind of offload or not many of us offload to not being important when in fact, you know, a lot of times it's just a matter of being kind that makes all that difference. That's the extra degree, you know, that's been to twice eight, you know, there's 212, there's 212 kindness, there's 212. Honesty, allthough. Honesty, in my opinion, should be just it's a black and white issue pretty much but 100%.
Eric Watkins:So I hope I answered, yeah, no, that's, that's really good. How about with businesses in general? You know, we have a lot of business owners that listen to this podcast, they're looking at their company.
Unknown:I don't want to say something that's in all the books and you know, a platitude here, I want to try to give you something interesting. Let's talk habit, this habit. How many times is the second or third or fourth question not asked because somebody just doesn't think it's worth the time. Somebody doesn't approach somebody. This is something I've settled on recently, last few days is how many times is something missed because of just just the inability for somebody to be objective and just listen to somebody? Right without the intent, I guess is a coffee coffee thing, Stephen Covey. Without the intent to respond, but rather just listen as objectively as possible, not with a position. You know, reading a book called The biggest bluff. It's by Maria Kournikova, she's a woman wrote that great book. Oh, you did? Okay. Yeah. So that book is really, I love the poker metaphors. I'm not a poker player, myself, almost. I heard her on a podcast. I thought, Okay, give it a try. And I got hooked into it. It's a very interesting lesson, right? Because do you play poker?
Eric Watkins:I haven't in a long time, I'm at least familiar with it, where I could kind of follow along with it.
Unknown:But the idea to me one of the biggest takeaways so far has been the idea that, you know, information changes. So you have to pay attention to the, in the poker world, you have to pay attention to the table because that person places a bet or fold or whatever. And that can change your position as to what you're going to do. So be objective and pay attention. And really, I think that's what we need to do more of in the workplace. My business partner, and I used to say, or my former business partner, and I used to say, let's, you know, you don't want to be so quick to answer the question just to prove that you think that you're right. You know, that's not we used to call a quick math, somebody being somebody tries to do the math really quick in their head, instead of just pulling out a calculator, let's just do the math. See, let's spreadsheet this thing. And then we can bang this thing against the wall. But we don't need to know that you know, your multiples of 12 out of your head, you know, your annualized revenue. So just if people would, I think one of the biggest things would be to be objective, and, and ask questions and listen. Now, there's a lot of people who might hear that and think that's ridiculous. That's not a big deal. That's not a big insight. That's just another one of your past, you know, your motivational platitudes. And it's a, it may be true, but it is, it's a reminder to something that I'm telling you that all of us know that we don't see enough of, you know, we're all eager to respond and show what we know, instead of listening and being objective and trying to realize that, hey, maybe we should change our position on this, for example, because of what Tom or Sally or, or Alex said, maybe now we should do this. And just because Alex is enrolled, it's not in senior level management, doesn't mean that Alex doesn't have the most wonderful idea in the world. And let's, let's work with it.
Eric Watkins:That's a great point. Have you read Crucial Conversations ever? I, I've read part of it. Okay. So there, there's a part in that book, we're really the theme of the book is to create a safe environment where people feel like they can get all the information out on the table, they call it the shared pool of meaning. But that really makes that point resonate with me of yes, it could be something as simple as so and so didn't want to ask this follow up question A, because they felt like you maybe weren't listening to them be because they didn't feel like it was safe, whatever the reason may be, and now you make a decision off 80% of the information versus that extra 20%. And then what's the ripple effect, that that could cause for the business from there, right? It's these, these small things seemingly small things really start to add up.
Unknown:So think about the attitude, you know, when you think about, you know, I talk about the importance of just a smile or a mood, and you know, you have some one person comes into an organization and it's harder now with some of the remote stuff to have this kind of a negative impact, but somebody comes in with a bad feeling. And they spread that stuff fast, a complaint spreads fast, a whining, persons, that stuff spreads fast, and it starts they try to one up each other. And next thing you know, you've lost, what could be equivalent of, you know, 120, man or person minutes in, in productivity, and not that it has to be, you know, not on a factory line necessarily, but you understand what it's doing. It's also in the poker book he was talking about. He, you know, the the Maria was talking to the guy who was coaching or the top guy. And he's she's complaining about what was called a bad beat. And that's when she played the hand, right? But the cars just didn't come up. Right for her. Right? And he's like, Don't ever tell me about your bad beats again, ever. I don't. It takes away from everybody, including your play and your object. And I just thought, Man, that's a that's tight way
Eric Watkins:to look at it. Right? Yes. And it's someone was just telling me this recently, they were talking about it's crazy these days. It's always everybody. I'm sure it's every generation. But like, they felt like in their generation, it was more about you know, you were telling people how good you were at something. And now it's like a competition competition for who can have the worst day you go home and yeah, man, I had a bad day there. It was raining. I stepped in the puddle. Oh, you think you had a bad day? On my way home? I pop my tire and etc, etc. Like it's a Have you ever seen that? They're like competing to have a worse day?
Unknown:Have you? Have you ever seen the four Yorkshiremen Monty Python thing? I have not what is I'll, I'll send a link to you. It's it's it's it's an old Monty Python thing. And it's all it's very old. And it's but it's it's for four wealthy guys on a stage we're drinking fancy wine and they start to tell about their sob stories of how they made it to be wealthy. And then each one opts themselves to the point where somebody's living in a box on the street. It's very funny, very funny,
Eric Watkins:girl. It's so true. And yeah, you think about if that's what your mindset is, you're going to be missing out on all of these opportunities because you're not focusing on the good or the solution and you're just living in the negative. So how would you address that? You know, with a lot of company there There's people listening to this call right now that are running companies and they know that have that one person that just came in with that bad attitude. And it's kind of spreading. And a lot of them don't address it for fear of, you know, well, they're doing really good at their job, or, you know, a lot of this is hearsay, how would you suggest addressing negativity in the
Unknown:workplace? Head on, I would say, but that's my style. I mean, I'm pretty straight. I don't wait around, and I don't. But but that came with time, you know, no one is, or a few people are very comfortable with, you gotta have a certain level of confidence a lot and a certain level of experience, to be able to just talk frankly, with people, but to not do it is a disservice to everybody. Because that negative person is going to be dragging other people down, they're going to wish you did that. And again, I went, I said it earlier, unless somebody's really unbelievable at their job. Which is, you know, there are some, but in my opinion, none of us are specialists, we think we are exact, probably not the best thing for a motivational speaker to say. But I think if we got our, if we remembered that more often, maybe we'd have a little more humility, and we'd be more helpful and compassionate to other people and be a little more grateful, right? Anyway, so going and getting back to the negative person, I would absolutely address it immediately. And I would not worry or worry, as long as I did it kindly and patiently and you know, when it calm kind of soothing presence, as long as I do it that way, which can be hard. I can't, I can be fine with that, right? I've done that, once I played my hand the right way, if I get a bad beat, and you know, a bad car gets drawn, and the person goes crazy, and they've quit on me or whatever, then so be it. You know, and again, I do understand the sensitivity at the highest levels when you have somebody and there's also then there's government organizations that have difficult people, and then you got to be challenged with all this stuff that they have to be challenged with. But overall, I just think people should just be honest and communicate often. And a lot of things would a lot of people be a lot more happy. And I believe the results would be a lot better as well. Yeah, no data,
Eric Watkins:I really know that it has to be right. It has to be right. I've seen it time and time again, over my years of experience. And I love you bringing it back in that book on the biggest bluff of it's not about the outcome of the conversation necessarily. It's did you handle it? What you could control? Did you handle it in a way? And if so, whatever happens happens, typically, in my experience, and you've probably seen this as well, when you have the direct honest conversation in a kind way, it actually brings the relationship closer, the person wasn't aware of their behavior, it's something and things start to improve immediately.
Unknown:I tell you, once I had an I had a teammate who, one of the so we were in business for 24 years. And over that period of that time, over that time period, I probably was disappointed by the departure of maybe at the top end five people sometimes it was just a mutual thing. Sometimes it was I was happy about it. And but a few times I was upset. And one of the guys that I was upset people that I was upset with I remember he it he didn't it didn't start out well. And my, my thing has always been, I don't know who I'm working with in about three to five days. And very, it'll happen very fast. And I'm going to make a decision. So it wasn't going well. And this person was talking with people in a negative way. And I'd heard about it from other teammates and all that kind of stuff. And so I had that conversation very quickly. And he turned it around and became amazing. And he was one of those people that I was sorry to see go. I don't know, it was a couple of years later, maybe two or three years later, but I remember asking him, what, what changed for you? And he said, Well, you talk to me. And I said, Yeah, but I've talked to other people and it didn't. That didn't pan out. And he goes, I believed you. And I was like, wow. So I felt good about that one. And it was he believed what I was saying. And I think that happens because that's going to be an intangible, it's going to come with experience. And that's going to be coming through connecting with people and on offense. So you have a better relationship. So it sets up that belief. So it's more likely to believe you rather than if you don't have if you got the person who's only touching base with people twice a month, which Yeah, again, it's ridiculous if they're doing that, but
Eric Watkins:it reminds me of the you know, we tell ourselves stories. So someone cuts us off on the highway, and we it's not necessarily that they cut us off. It's the that person's a jerk and they're not going anywhere important, but if we knew they were rushing to the hospital because their wife was pregnant, we'd probably be like, Oh, go ahead, cut me off.
Unknown:Or they could just make a mistake. Sure. Right. And that's the thing. My wife likes to remind me, you know, I'm from the DC area, I moved to Richmond 20 years ago, but DC learned how to drive really. I mean, it's not a pleasant place. And you come down here, you got to be nice to everybody. And it's nice. But I make mistakes. Sometimes if somebody goes crazy on me, and I'm sorry, is a mistake in the crowd, right? And you're right. So you don't know the context of, of what's going on with that person. Maybe they gotta go to the bathroom, you know?
Eric Watkins:Who knows? So duty calls. So I want to because you started in sales, we're a sales, our whole business is revolved around sales. Let's talk a little bit about motivation of sales reps, because this is one of the toughest jobs to continue to stay motivated. It doesn't matter how good you are, there's going to be peaks, there's going to be valleys. How would you recommend sort of using these principles that you wrote about that you would? You would you would do to keep a sales team highly motivated?
Unknown:Well, it's gonna come back to frequent connection, frequent conversations with the people that you lead. So am I speaking to leaders right now, or,
Eric Watkins:let's say, let's say you're a sales manager, and you manage a team of sales reps?
Unknown:Well, if you're a sales manager, hopefully, you've carried the same bag as your people at some point. And if you've done that, I don't know if anybody carries a bag anymore. That's just frames from my time. But if you've done that, then you know where they're coming from. And, you know, one of the things that I hear it my opinion too much over the years, is when people talk about being a babysitter, and I, when a leader says that, to me, it's a bad sign. It's, they should know what again, if they carried a bag, they know what it's like rejection in some sales roles is, you know, it's enormous. And that's a tough thing to deal with. You know, I had roles where I wasn't comfortable. I wasn't, I didn't, I sold physicians, I actually sold hip and knee implants at one point, and I didn't particularly enjoy selling to my decision maker, which was, that doesn't work really well. But anyway, the the orthopedic surgeon and it that that's a tough, there's a lot of rejection, there's a lot of putting down some, my boss was very good about connecting with me, and asking me about my challenges and trying to see and help me do it. He's never was abrasive. He's one of my, you know, I've still known to this day. And it's been a long time since I've worked with him. And I think the best thing a sales leader can do is hire the right obviously, hire the right people, with people who you think are going to be able to deal with the things that your particular industry deals with, and, and be relentless about hiring the people who can do that. And then being that servant leader and helping them rather than I don't know if anybody does this anymore, but in my day, there was some tough sales managers, I mean, some ugly stuff, and I don't hear much about that anymore, but I'm certain that there is some form of it out there still.
Eric Watkins:Sure. How would that go? You know, when you say ugly managers, how would you? How would you see that? What, whatever you can share on this podcast? Well, I
Unknown:mean, so I remember, you know, managers sticking their finger in my face. And, and when I'm driving to because we used to do ride alongs. And your manager would come into town and I remember manager, specifically telling me in the passenger seat while I'm driving down the highway, you know, your job and he's got his finger in my ear, practically, your job is to do what I tell you. And that's it. And that, you know, that's that's not something that's not what you want to communicate. I don't think to anybody, I don't think that endears you to anyone. Certainly, you could put some fear in there. But, but not for long because the change will be made and probably but how does it show itself I think it shows itself from passive aggressive behavior sometimes. Instead of just being compassion can go a long way a good demeanor with a sales manager or sales leader can go a long way I can I see it I can. I, you know, being an outsider to organizations, when I go and speak there. I see dynamics amongst click not cliques. That's wrong word, but amongst the groups, I can see who sits at what table I see who pals around with who is especially in a larger audience, and you can feel like I can feel the culture there. And and some are very are wonderful, but some I can feel the fear, and I can see it and I can see the bosses sometimes and one of the things that I don't think is a good idea that I sometimes see is I see boss Is the managers all sitting amongst themselves in an audience? And I don't think that's a good idea. I think they should be spread out. And they should. It's just not a good it's not a good message. But I still see it. Yeah. And
Eric Watkins:that's interesting. You can see like you can you can look at a interact with a group for a session, and you can just get a sense of what that culture is like at that. Oh,
Unknown:yeah, I feel like, I don't know if this is you, you would have seen that I think they've remade this movie. So I don't know. There's a movie called poltergeist poltergeist. Yeah, the first one, I feel like that little lady who walks in the room and can feel the good or the evil, you know, this place is clean or is evil I can, you can, and it's not it's not really, it's not rock, I'm not special. In that sense. You anybody could do it. Because you just have to look around, you just have to pay attention like that poker table thing, you just have to pay attention to people's hand movements and the way they they talked to one with one another and word choice that they use and whether or not they you hear a lot of eyes instead of us and we and teammate and that kind of stuff. You know, I'm surprised at how many times I hear a leader making it about them. Yeah, I just don't get that piece. I mean, I get that piece because what I call that the boss complex, sometimes people get on checked, you get into a position, you got to be real careful about this if you're in a leadership role, because as you probably know, as any leader on this call, or anybody listening to this might know, you have to know you remember when you weren't a leader. So there are conversations and like you said, there's always a story, right? There's a story being you can't, you can't control that story, you can only you can only influence that story. And the best thing you can do is be that servant leader, helping your people succeed, caring only about that. And if you have a person that you're not happy with, and it's not working out, and you communicate to them in a very kind way that they need to fix these things, or it's not going to be a good match anymore. You just it's just objectively a matter of fact, instead of being an angry or passive aggressive thing. And if you do that, sometimes it will work out for the positive. And sometimes it'll work out for the positive because the person will leave. And it's just not a good match anyway, anymore. Yeah, all of this, there's no need for all the I think, of course, I could be wrong. Think there's, we put a lot of things in our way of succeeding, that are just very simple things that we could just be doing. And that one is talking with one another. One is being kind with one another. And kind, sometimes it's helping somebody find a different path. So that's important too. And I was help when I was younger, to find that different path. And I've helped others. And I've got some teammates from my old place that have gone on to do wonderful things. And I truly love seeing that. It's, you know, means I hired somebody, I hired the right person at one time. So I like that,
Eric Watkins:and you had an impact on their journey, you know, they probably wouldn't be there. Hopefully, whether they, you know, I there's been employees that I've had to let go for various reasons who have gone on and be extremely successful. And it's either I did that in a way where they could have another opportunity, or, you know, that maybe they learned something from the experience. And it's so good to there. But not having the conversation not addressing it is the worst thing I think we both agree with that is the worst way to handle that.
Unknown:One of my favorite one of my I had a teammate once who she I remember talking amongst with one other person and this person, and all of a sudden with what we were talking about, she went, oh my god, I'm not useful anymore. And I went, and I said, Oh, you You're right. And it was a weird truth between like, but we have this high trust environment. And she's gone. She's a CEO somewhere now, and I love it. And but it was this moment, and we parted amicably, and I still talk to this person. And it's just, you know, if you've got the environment, if you've got the culture that that communicates on a regular basis, and has it's a warm environment, if you can create a warm environment, and even if that environments, not the whole company, but it's just your team. If you can do that, those kinds of magical moments happen and it's a lot less stressful. And it's a lot more enjoyable. I always say what we're all looking for is a more enjoyable day, professionally and personally, and what we can do to impact that more enjoyable day. We all have these opportunities, these, these one second opportunities where we can choose to be a part of the right side of that story, or the wrong side of that story. We'll make mistakes and when we do make the mistakes and it's important to remember, we need to bounce back fast. We can apologize quickly. We can forgive quickly all these what people would call soft skills. We can just do, as hopefully many of our parents taught us to do. And that's again, it just does so well often just comes down to these small moments of kindness, of honesty. being approachable, it's, it's actually, it's beautiful, that it's that simple. But it is a strange thing that it is, seems to be so difficult. At times for all of us need to
Eric Watkins:just people are busy, you know, that's the excuse, we always tell ourselves, right, and it just make our lives easier if we took a little bit more time. And,
Unknown:and you might find it a joy. And again, like I always talk about connecting with people on a personal level, I talk about talking with people on planes, and I think it's important to do, and because it opens up our relationships and opportunities and good things come out of it. But I also share with people that there are while I talk with people on planes there. There are times when I wish I didn't when I wished I didn't open when I wish I didn't open up a phone call or the the discussion. And you just learn how to you just learn how to exit those politely those conversations. But the point is you're connecting with more people hearing people's stories. And they're connecting, see, look at like even more Maria Kournikova go back to her book, she, you know, I don't even know this person, and she's affected me positively affected you positively, and maybe your listeners positively. And that's a neat thing all because a few people just decided to make some connections, I had that breakfast with somebody 20 years ago, and it became a book that became a very important to a lot of people, all because of a conversation. Not truly only because of that, but because of that's the spark, that's where these things set in motion. And we can't know that. So to me, and I just wrote about this, because I have a sub stack. And I, you know, I'm feel lucky to be a person who likes to initiate connection. I have regular phone calls with people on a monthly basis, I meet with people on a regular basis on a weekly basis. In fact, the business that I have the business that I just did for 24 years, my business partner and I, that was an idea that came out of an early morning, Friday morning, regular breakfast that we used to have with another person. So again, conversations and connections that produce these kinds of things. At least that's been my experience.
Eric Watkins:That's great. So a couple things. Cut two more questions. And then we'll wrap this up. The first question I would say is you quoted a lot of different authors within your book, you did a lot of research, you're continuing to read books, give me your top three books. If you're a young professional these days and you want to improve, what would be your your top three? I know it's tough question.
Unknown:Yeah, that's me think. Because my stuff's old, my friends,
Eric Watkins:maybe they maybe they need a little old school in their life. Yeah, but I
Unknown:haven't read them so long. So I'll say them, but I haven't read them in so long. So let me give you I'll give you a book that I think is important. That's not too old. And that's the art of power by Tiktok. Han. He just died recently at like 96 or 98 years old is a Buddhist monk who the art of power is not what you might not the aggressive thing you're talking about. But about, he's a Buddhist. So it comes to add it with a little bit of that, but it's also definitely secular too. There's a lot to get out of that book. And the old school books would be Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. I remember that being very important to me there. At that time in my life. That's I think that was published in 89 I think I read it like 94 I actually read it three times. I remember it was so important. So those habits are can be difficult but they are simple. And then of the classic and I'm doing this is really old, but the How to Win Friends and Influence People.
Eric Watkins:It's great. It's one of my favorites still still to this day. It's I feel like it's still rings true.
Unknown:You know, the other guy's got some old old references. So
Eric Watkins:very old references. Yes. All right. So then the My last question would be you've obviously been very successful in life, you know, to get to this point, what is something you feel like you may you do that a lot of others may not do that has allowed you to be successful?
Unknown:Well, I connect with people on a regular basis. I think I'm a very I'm a decent, okay conversationalist. And I mean, I live in the city of pointing like you can see this, I live in the city of Richmond and I walk my dog I work out of the house and at this point, and so I see a lot of people on the street and I talk with them. And, and I unless I've got something really pressing. I give people a lot of time because I because it's a little selfish because I am a content guy. And I hear stories and they prompt things for And then. So in a way it is it's not as it's not as altruistic as maybe I'm making it out to be. But connecting with people has been I've, it's been my whole I mean, it's been this is the reason I've had any success that I've every single thing seems to come out of a coma. Every one of my book titles comes out of a conversation. I mean, I wrote a book called crossed the line that came to me at a light, that premise came to me at a stoplight and I my kid and my son, who's now an adult in the car, and I was complaining about them not practicing hard. I was soccer coach. And I said, you guys, I think it was 12 years old. I said, You know what your guy's problem is you haven't crossed the line, you know, with everything, there's a line and on one side of that line is a better chance for good things to happen. On the other side, there's less of a chance and I was like, Don't tell anybody that I said that, Sam, to my son, because I knew it was the book. Yeah. So these conversations, if you're listening, and you're paying attention, you can hear things sooner rather than later. And you can hear good things. And maybe like my business partner identified one time, I was telling him a story about something that happened to me. And at the end of it, I had this line, and I told him to smile and move. And he said, Could we do something with that. And that conversation became the book, smile and move. So now there had to be a lot of other things that went into that. But the sparks come from that connection.
Eric Watkins:I love that. And I'm admittedly very bad at that I'm very, you know, I'm at the gym, where I'm walking down the street, head down, I'm probably thinking about something else. I don't go out of my way to get in conversations with people that I don't know. And it's made a big impact on your life. And that's a really cool thing. I'm sure a lot of us are looking at our phones or doing something else. And that's just a that's a that's a generational, so to speak. I
Unknown:I think that's a generational thing. Because partially, but also, like, I was listening to this podcast with a person who wrote a book called hanging out the radical art of killing time. And she was on as reclines podcasts are different in New York Times. And she was taught telling a story about how she and a friend were having such a difficult time getting together over the course of the year. And I just immediately thought the you, it's, it's not difficult. And that is that cold hearted thing about this, it's just that neither of you really wants to do it. Because if you did, so if I told you, let's meet tomorrow at 730 in the morning, I will have a bag of I will have a bag of money in the amount of $2 million for you, would you make that meeting, of course you would, of course I
Eric Watkins:would have it I will come.
Unknown:But um, but that's my so we have these, we have these, you have to initiate these connections. And that but you said something that made me think of that, oh, your your thing with the earphones. And people have their earphones. And obviously, these two are a little bit younger than me by maybe 15 years. And they they recognized that they didn't want to bother people who had earphones in. And I thought well, maybe you're not bothering them, you can just see. Now you've maybe you do bother them and I get that and then I've served but I bothered plenty of people. But just because I have earphones in doesn't mean I'm listening to something. So you can just say hi. And and if your dogs are talking, you can strike up a conversation. Now, again, to be clear, maybe somebody doesn't want that conversation, I get it. But really I you know, as you as you get older, or as I got older anyway, I realize just how finite time is. And nothing precedes relationships, in my opinion. And it leads to so many good things. So why not connect with people, but again, I get it. It's not easy for everybody. And it's actually can be anxiety producing for some people. So I get that too.
Eric Watkins:But the only way you're less than that is to do it more often. Right? I think so. I think you're right. Well, Sam, thank you so much for being on the growth show. We really appreciate it. We love the book. We're big fans. I know people are listening out here where can they find you? Where can they follow you
Unknown:i if they go to just sparker.com they get to everything that I have. So just and then s Parker So Sam Parker just sparker.com and I have a sub stack that I've just started so I'm but I'm not staying in the world only that I was in I'm trying to get more of a actually don't know exactly what's happening. I'm kind of exploring that now and trying to promising my wife
Eric Watkins:every step of the way. I really appreciate it. Awesome
Unknown:the gross show was sponsored by creative sweets, big agency flavor, bite size The price