The Grow Show: Business Growth Stories from the Frontlines

Episode 12: Get Your Ass Back Into Your Business

June 24, 2022 Scott Scully, Jeff Winters, Eric Watkins Season 1 Episode 12
The Grow Show: Business Growth Stories from the Frontlines
Episode 12: Get Your Ass Back Into Your Business
Show Notes Transcript

In a fast growing company, there are multiple layers of managers and decisions makers. Most articles and consultants will tell you that the layers are necessary to ensure you're working on your business. This episode dives into why you should work in your business and spend time working arm in arm with your front-line teams. This will give you better insight into the wants and needs of your people and them better insight into the vision of your company and the things they can do to help it succeed.

Eric Watkins:

Welcome to the grove show where we make it easier for entrepreneurs and leaders to grow their businesses. You'll hear from real leaders with real stories about their successes and failures. So you don't have to make the same mistakes. We won't break out textbooks or talk theory only raw stories from the front lines with actionable takeaways.

Scott Scully:

The gross show is sponsored by Heil sound, world class microphones for stage studio, broadcast and podcast. Find your sound it Heil sound.com

Jeff Winters:

Here's the next episode of the Grow Show. Welcome back to another episode of the Grow show. This is a different voice welcoming you. As you probably know, all of our loyal subscribers joined by only one partner and growth. Scott Skelly.

Scott Scully:

What's going on? Everyone?

Jeff Winters:

We're missing another, we're missing the third leg of our stool.

Scott Scully:

We miss him. We miss him. It's gonna be a fun conversation today. He he would enjoy being involved. In today's topic, for sure,

Jeff Winters:

I think he would agree with the sentiment with the topic with all things. I gotta tell you, no one, no one is here. But the seating arrangement different. I'm now looking Scott in the eye as opposed to looking at the timer, which is a whole difference. So

Scott Scully:

much less stressful for you.

Jeff Winters:

Ah, that is true. That is true. I am ecstatic. Not excited. I'm ecstatic about today's topic. We've been waiting to go like, more against the grain I think. Yeah. Because we promote this show as a no textbooks. No theory. Not all the consultants are right. This one I think, hits that note daily.

Scott Scully:

Yeah. Give it to him. What are we talking about?

Jeff Winters:

We're going to talk today about why you should spend a whole lot more time as a leader or a CEO, or President working in the business than you should working on the business.

Scott Scully:

You let them have it contrary to what everyone in the world is telling them get back in the business.

Jeff Winters:

So I thought first, maybe we could just do some basic definitions, a little housekeeping. What's the difference between working in the business? Practically versus working on the business? And Scott, what do you see when people are working in the business versus working on the business?

Scott Scully:

Yeah. Well, I think that the textbooks and the consultants would tell you that it is your job. As fast as humanly possible to rise above, get out of the weeds, be able to look forward and really consult and and you know, work through your leadership team and build that leadership team. You know, in the beginning stages, I think that a founder is in the business, side by side, doing the work, showing people how to do the work rolling up the sleeves, talking about where the business could go. Right? Just just kind of in there with people doing work. That's in the business. Working on the business as you're outside. You're no longer on the line. Your sleeves are down your your more administrative your lunches longer your lunches longer. There's, I certainly understand why people talk about getting out side and building a team and infrastructure. I just couldn't disagree with it more.

Jeff Winters:

Okay. Tell it so now we got the definitions. Yeah. Tell everybody keep going. I'll tell it you couldn't disagree with more tell everybody why?

Scott Scully:

Nobody knows the vision. Like you do. And you know, let's say you grow like you're growing. And there's layers of management. Now, the first group that was with you happens here, right? They were there. They saw the first mistakes we made. They helped come up with solutions. They were part of formulating what the service or the product was in the beginning. They know you as an individual they know that you're thinking about others care about others. They know what the the overall mission of the businesses they just feel connected and strong and tied in and they know you and that those people are going to carry that with them for a long time you grow, then the next layer of management comes in, or group or level of, you know, employees, and maybe they know you as well, but not quite as well, maybe you're not working with them. alongside those folks, as much as you did the, you know, the next layer, then the next one comes, they don't know you. You haven't worked with them. They don't know your bad jokes. Kidding, Jeff's cough, Jeff's kind of funny accent, everyone knows my. But they, they weren't there when it started. Some of the vision is coming through your leadership, right, but they're not getting all of it. Some of those stories start like, hey, we created this, because of this. Half, that's not true. Right. And just the more you grow, the more disconnected things become. And people feel like, because that's what they hear, Well, I gotta go up, I gotta go up. And I've got my team. And it's their job to develop their team and their team's job to develop the team underneath them. And it's like the whole phone game, right? Where the message gets distorted, the more people that goes through, it's the same thing in business. And when a leader gets outside of that, if they're not always willing to skip layers, take extended periods of time, listen to feedback, do the work with them, interact with customers, over time, you lose your way. And I just think that we've been talking about it with our business, that we've grown rapidly. And we've got to a point, and we're talking about some of our younger leaders, some of our younger leaders weren't there. They don't know the stories now. And how could we expect them to, and it's our job to get out and get engaged with some of those folks, and get them to realize what's going really well now versus the past and remind them of the mission and talk to them about some of the new things that we're doing and we're involved in, they don't get to hear that. And it didn't get to be the same message coming from somebody else, I don't think you should ever work outside of the business. But that's my opinion.

Jeff Winters:

You know, you said something about the the expectation becomes you build a layer and you build another layer of leadership and management, you work through those people. The other part of that is, I think people relax a little bit, they get used to working on the business, because working on the business is kind of fun. You know, kind of working through others, you're not in the trenches, maybe the the micro numbers that really matter. You're not accountable to you're accountable to a number that sort of trees up four or five different ways. Maybe your schedule isn't as tightly managed, you got more autonomy, you got fewer direct reports, you could think about the future, you could have time to whiteboard. That sounds pretty good. And so as you're expected to go up and up and up and up, work through other people, then you compound that with, I kind of like this. I don't, maybe I feel like I'm not doing as much maybe I feel like there's not as much pressure on me. I'm not having to be as regimented. There's not as much accountability. And that to me is you got to you have to feel that you have to check yourself and go wait a second, now I'm starting to be too removed. And that's not what this job is. I'm not going to be the best for my people or my team or my organization. If all I want to do is work on the business, especially when you see problems. When you see problems, and this is something that you have a choice, you can pull up your chair, bring your shovel and dig in. And we'll get into sort of the tactically how because I think you've got great thoughts on this because people are gonna go well how do I get back into the business I five layers of management or whatever. You can work through others, you can bring your shovel, pull up your chair, and dig in and go side by side belly to belly and fix it with people. Yeah, that's different.

Scott Scully:

I think what I've found a lot of depends on the size but a leader is not necessarily disenchanted with the layer that they're working with. It's the maybe the layer underneath the layer they're working with. Right and And those are the folks that didn't kind of see it firsthand. And you know, where where we're coming off the tracks a little bit is that, you know, for instance, if I'm reporting directly to you, and then I have people that are reporting to me, and those people weren't there I was, I need to remember what you did, and what we did, and try to create the same experience for me. And honestly, I'd be tying you into that, so that they knew you. They believed in where you were going, where you're taking us, I just think that's where that's where companies fail. That's where they don't continue to grow. The more disconnected the the owner, the founder, the president, the CEO becomes the more disenchanted people become things to fall apart, get a little frayed processes fall down. Belief systems are, are, you know, weakened. It's funny, right? We were having a conversation before getting on today. It's like, if we were to say, if we were to pick one thing that we could work on and make sure that we do a really good job with in the next year, to go to $100 million. Like, let's go old school. Let's get back to it. Let's roll up the sleeves. Let's remind people what we're all about. Let's, you know, let's inform them of where certain things came from and celebrate successes that we've had along the way and get people super tied into the mission. No better way to do that and sit right with them.

Jeff Winters:

So you got some people listening now founder CEOs, they go, Yeah, I like this. This is good. This makes sense. To me. I'm feeling a little disconnected. Things aren't happening the way I want them to. Tactically though, Scott, like what do I do? How do I work? What are some tips or things that you would recommend for me to work in the business as the CEO? What am I what do I do? How do I do it?

Scott Scully:

Well, first of all, you're thinking, I can't do that. I've got eight meetings. Yeah. And I have, I got to talk to the lawyer, I got to talk to the banker, you know, or I've got a group of investors or I'm accustomed to, you know, only working X amount hours now. And so you're probably figuring out or thinking, How do I fit that into the schedule. And I guess what I'm suggesting is that none of those meetings that you're having currently, are as impactful as a couple of hours with a group of your people, letting them get to know you, getting them believing in themselves, understanding the company where we're going, growing. And that's what happens. It's like, I've got my set meetings. And I think that that's how I'm having an impact on the business. And I'm not thinking that if I have a whole team full of engaged people, everything else is easier. Like all the things that I want to have happen, happen if I'm doing that work, and we forget that, you know, as we grow along, and it seems like we always end up back at this discussion. That's why I think it's important to get it out into the world. Stop getting out of the business. Get back in it, and you're gonna go wherever you will, you're gonna grow it wherever you want, the minute you get out of it. It didn't happen, like sure someone could run it get out and it'll be what it's going to be but it's never going to be what you can make it if you're in the business.

Jeff Winters:

I'll give you one example that that always it's I get away from it too long and then I get back to an arrest cache shutdowns. CEOs, owners founders can take sales calls can and should take sales calls with some frequency because it is so easy to go sales should just be selling more, they should be trying harder, it's easy our product sells itself okay, go take a sales call. Go take a sales call go take a few a you're going to be able to sell better for the company and just by the nature of your position you're going to be able to sell better you may explain to the better there's there's just like authority that comes with you CEO, Owner, founder President whatever selling so there's that that's not what you're doing it but it helps nice to get a dealer to second you're gonna get firsthand market feedback that you do not get even if you're listening to recorded calls that which it there's something to it. And third, you're going to be able to relate to your sales team, your VP of Sales your sales manager better if your take doing sales calls. Because then you can say, wait a minute, that objection? No, no, no, no, I've been on these calls. I've heard that objection. That's BS. Or no, that's not what people are saying the only reason people are saying that is because we're not. We're not saying things this way. And you can sharpen your, your pitch and sharpen the pitch of the team. Owner, CEO, President founder, take some sales calls.

Scott Scully:

Yeah. Yeah, and you don't have to be the best? No, you're just doing it. There are three periods of time in our history where I went out under our floor. And I sat with individual sales managers that, you know, that ran a team of 10 people on a team, one manager, and, you know, they're responsible for Phillip, fulfilling X number of our clients. And every time I went out, I sat on the team that was in last place. Now, there's things that I didn't like, I didn't have the technology to listen to their calls. So I could coach one way. But I wasn't necessarily hearing what the customer was saying we could do that. Now. Of course, I didn't, you know, we had converted to Salesforce. So I actually didn't run Salesforce before. So I wasn't bringing that. Still don't. One thing I need to learn more about. And these teams were in last place. And but guess what I was there in the beginning, I know where we want to go. super passionate about it. couldn't feel any better about what we do as a service. So I believe in what they're doing. I've done that job before. I didn't have Salesforce, but I've done the job they're doing. I've been on the phone have sold. The only thing that I had was, hey, guess you're super talented. I like to win. We have to come to work anyway. I'm assuming you'd like to win. We're winning this month. They'd look at me like Yeah, right. We're in last place. Like, no, we are, we're gonna beat the shit out of every one of these other teams. That's the expectation. That's why you're here. You're super talented. That's why we hired you. We're going to do as a team, the shot a couple of extra responsibilities. You're doing this, you're doing this. Everybody's super tight. And we want every time. Like,

Jeff Winters:

well, hang on, though. Hang on, though. Why was that? I mean, really, when you dig when you dig deep, and you go, I didn't, by the way for those. He said he didn't know Salesforce. Like that's a trivial thing that the entire foundation of the team that he ran was based on sales for, like if sales, for example, if Salesforce went down, there would be no work, right? You'd be so how'd you? How'd you do that?

Scott Scully:

Well, I know. I know the process. I know what we what we built Salesforce to do. I know what a phone call looks like, should sound like I know why, you know why we're doing it. The objections. But I think it was more that getting people to believe in what we do, why it's impactful for our clients, why the work is so important, why they're important how they tie into the overall organization, what it could mean to them if they learn it, and do well and serve the clients in the right way. And you're just getting them to understand over the course of a month, who I am, what I believe in, I think they started to realize that I that I go people first like I care deeply about people and where they grow and get into new heights. I'm hard on people. But I think they understood why I was hard because I wanted them to win as individuals and as a team. I set high expectations. I was exhausted at the end of every day, because not only did I set high expectations, but I held people to high expectations every single hour, all day, all month. But guess what, every one of them was better at the end of the month. You know, they were on top, they felt successful. And a huge percentage of those people from all of those teams are here. And they're doing things and and I think that that's because they had some success early on which which allowed made them want to stay a little bit longer than they started having more success. And they understood right from the I guess founders lips, why we started where we're going where we could go what some of the possibilities are And, man, a lot of those people are doing big things here. So what would that have looked like? If I said, Scott, every time you did that, that had a huge impact. Why the fuck did I stop that? Like, we always go back to it like, now I gotta go do that with graphic design team, I gotta go do that I don't have to be a graphic designer. Or I gotta go to the accounting department and spend a couple of days in there. Like, if they know, you, they know you care. They know. They just know why they're super important. And they and they, and they know you believe in him. And then you're there and you get them to some success, and you celebrate that, that can last for a long time. Like, so as a CEO? Why the hell would we like? Um, that's what I've been thinking about over the last couple of days. Like, what the what the fuck am I doing? Why do I do anything else? Yeah. Because what I ultimately want is people to stay lives to change clients to be impacted for our company to continue to grow. What I gotta go to my office and have another meeting. That was that gonna do? As opposed to getting out and continuing to spread the vision?

Jeff Winters:

Especially now? Yeah, with people remote? Yeah, you don't, you don't know. You're not walking, or even, even if you weren't going to take over a team or take sales calls or manage a group. You used to be able to walk around in here. So and so we'd be making a call for collections. And you go, Oh, that's a little aggressive, or that's a little patch or whatever. or so and so was doing a results meeting or a client meeting. And you I would have maybe chosen words differently. You now that's you can't have that. You can't have that. So as far away from the business as you were three or four years ago, you're twice as far away now. And you don't even know it. Yeah. And that is why Okay, so if you're another thought, maybe you're not going to go manage a team. You shouldn't you could but maybe you're not. Maybe that's there

Scott Scully:

with a manager shadow. Yeah, you. I didn't run them. I sat with the manager. Yeah. And all of those managers. That's not true. One is no longer with us. But two are here and doing wonderful things. And to sit on the team, be with the people, talk to him directly, see who's unplugged, plug them back in, like, care about them, love them, get let them get to know you. strengths and weaknesses, shit, I've got all kinds of weaknesses, you know that. But if someone knows you're going to work just as hard as them. And, and you're going to always be there for them, then they're going to want to be in the trenches with you, they're going to trust you more, they're going to want to go where, you know, you're leading the organization, if if if the people don't have that experience with you, it's harder.

Jeff Winters:

Yeah, I've always found and we talked about this earlier, we and other people in the room and they echoed this sentiment, I've always found there's something about doing the actual work that people really appreciate doing the work that's, you know, that someone who is an entry level employee at your organization is doing sky that you talked about, someone was laying the cable at a particular company or whatever it was, like do the work. And I think people, you get to be higher up and you don't want to do the work. And I think a lot of the reason for that is you're out of practice and you think you'll fail at doing the work of an entry level employee or a frontline manager. And here's the here's the truth about that. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if you fail it. No, what matters is that you do it. Because they're failing. Every now and again. And they they many people think those who can't do teach, you hear that all the time, those who can't do teach. So this is someone who's super high up and they're just going to tell me in theory, how I should do my job having never done the job or haven't done the job recently. Go in there, sit with people, even entry level people, Frontline, whoever it is and do the work. Take the angry client, I got this angry client call. I'm going to do this implementation for this new client to hear about their onboarding experience. I'm going to do the sales call. I'm going to do the collections call me here all the time. CEOs who take support calls, I'm going to sit on the support desk and take support calls for two hours, do the work.

Scott Scully:

Like, go to sales, go to Account Management, go to operations, right? Go to marketing, just go to it, just rotate through your departments, you're going to know better than than we are right? Like, I don't know, if it's, you can get a lot accomplished in a day, or if it's a team you should sit with for a month. But if you're always doing that, then you're also getting firsthand a firsthand look. And then when you're sitting with your top leaders, you guys can have an even better conversation about what's going on in different parts of your business, and it's not coming. You know, a lot of times, that'll come three levels up, the two of you sitting in your office don't even fucking know what's going on, like, you two don't know what's going on. And the person underneath that person does, and it's really the person under that. And so get like, get out there collectively together, at that level, and, and take it off, like, watch it, listen, and you're going to be better. And the more removed you get, the worse off you're going to be.

Jeff Winters:

Here's what you're going to find. Having some experience with this and some observations, and you got to figure out how you're going to deal with what you're going to find. What you're going to find, in my experience, is you're going to find processes that were designed, sometimes by you, or you were very close to, that used to work great, that now potentially don't work as well, because they've been changed, that's going to be frustrating. You're going to find people who are not as bought into the organization or as understanding of the organization as they otherwise could be, you're going to find frontline managers and newer leaders who you think are communicating in a certain way. Because you, you, you training or leadership development or whatever that may be still have a lot of development to do. Your you're going to find all those things. And more, you're going to find places where you can add resources where people need to be hired, or when you have too much. And that's the gold, like that's the that's the gold of doing this is you're going to uncover all these things. And you unlike your leaders who are in in charge of all these areas directly, you have the power and the wherewithal and the resources to like make quick unilateral changes without bureaucracy that can help these people help your clients or help these people have a better experience and that and you can't put a price on that. That's the best.

Scott Scully:

And what happens, Jeff, I'm a couple layers down in the organization. And I know that you do that as a practice. I know that one day, you're going to be sitting on a team within my department and you're going to see everything that's going on. That motivates me to make sure that shit straight. And that processes are in place. And that x expectations are set in there's there's more of an organization, it's just gonna happen, you start doing that. People start expecting that at any point in time, Jeff is going to be in my department, sitting there taking a look. I'm going to run my department a lot better than I would have. If you know I didn't realize you were going to do that.

Jeff Winters:

And, and you create a culture of everybody being dug in. Okay, there's a problem. You know what I'm gonna do, boom, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna grab my shovel. I'm gonna pull up my stool, and I'm gonna dig in and figure it out. Yeah, and you know what? We should talk about the fact that this may rubbed some people the wrong way. Totally, it might.

Scott Scully:

Yeah, I mean, the manager that you're sitting with, like, Oh, Bob, what the hell is going

Jeff Winters:

on here. But you

Scott Scully:

just got it. You have to handle it in in the right way. Right? You've got to build up the person that you're sitting with, build up the team and try to, you know, put the positive spin on it. But you know, there's times where you can also just call out stupid shit and make sure people aren't doing that again as well. Right. But the manager, you're sitting with the manager of that manager, as you're uncovering things that shouldn't be going on. Yeah, that's not a I have a lot of fun. And, of course, some people aren't going to like it. But if you are doing that from the get go, and you never get away from it, then people are going to understand it's just part of your culture. And they're understanding that you are doing that just because you always want to be doing a great job for the client. And for, you know, the people, like if things are going well, we're better for our people, then they're in a better spot down the road. And the company is in a better spot. So if people understand why you're doing it, and you stay committed to it, it'll be part of your culture. And then there'll be bought in

Jeff Winters:

that I think you hit on the, the unlock there, which is now it's a part of your culture. It's not weird. When Scott comes and sits with a frontline manager and takes over the team that's just got, that's, that's part of our culture. And he's not coming here as a punishment at all. Quite the opposite. He's coming here to serve. He's coming here to serve you, and our people and our team. And you know what, Mr. or Mrs. Manager, it might suck for a minute, like, it's going to feel uncomfortable, it's going to feel itchy. But at the end of that 30 days, you're gonna know a lot more than you did at the beginning, you're probably going to be a different better leader. And in three years, it's going to be remember that time, yeah, it's going to be one of those. Remember that times when we're all going to be sitting around the table. You remember that time when Scott came over, and he sat with me, and we code manage the team. And we were in last plays. And then 30 days later, we turned up to be in first place. And I learned more, this is what you'll hear every time. I learned more in that 30 days than I had learned in the years of experience I had prior to that, and I am a different leader today because of that 30 days.

Scott Scully:

Yeah, it's fun. It's actually fun. It is like, I want to slap my own face. I do, because because of a couple of reasons. You know, we've been going through transition and putting management teams in place. And we've had a lot of growth. And I haven't done that in a while. And I'm so pissed. Because it's what works better than anything else. I'm coming in. I can't wait. I don't know which team it is. Oh, boy. And it's great. And yeah, I just it's the best way to have a pulse to develop people to spread vision to know what we need to work on to test processes. And, you know, we need to be doing it all the time. And every time that we may fall off it a little bit. Because we say we told people we're going to talk about what not to do, right? What you shouldn't do is come off of this. You should should get into the business and never get out of it. Because we've been out of it at different time periods. And I think that's when we have more turnover. That's when we're having a more difficult time growing. And when we're doing that kind of stuff. That's when when we're doing this people are more engaged, we're more successful, we're having more fun. And we need to figure out how to remind one another in the future that to be sticking close.

Jeff Winters:

I'll tell you how, in the recent past, I've triggered myself to to know that, Oh, I forgot that I do this. And every time I do this things are better. And I should do this more is when I'm in the sounds silly to say but I bet people out there have experienced this. You're kind of looking around almost like what do I have my days kind of empty? A little bit. I could fill it with meetings if I want. But that's not the right solution. What should I be doing with my time, that's when that's the moment where you should go, don't go out, go in, go. Now you know what I'm do with my time, I'm going to spend 20% of my time to talk to customers. I'm going to spend 20% of my time I'm going to be shadowing leaders. I'm going to be doing skip levels, meaning I'm going to be doing regular meetings with directors and managers and frontline team members. That's when you know, okay, I don't go out. Go in

Scott Scully:

you know, for me, I'm so I'm in the meetings and then you start having these meetings, you start hearing some things. Yeah. Like, wow, this is, you know, salaries all over the country or x, or everybody's got 100% remote. So that's what people want. If they don't have 100% remote, they don't want to be you just start hearing these things. four layers up. And then you just start accepting right yep. As opposed to that's kind of causes me I think over time to to get in it's like that. I don't know about that. That doesn't sound right. Oh,

Jeff Winters:

when you get suspended you start hearing stuff because everyone is doing this. Yeah,

Scott Scully:

okay. Right. Like we were just Talking about this. If we don't have 100% remote, we won't retain anyone. Well, what about the fact that 28% of the US population has been turned over at least once in the last two years, because companies made, like, bad decisions, and they didn't have themselves in a spot where they were protected, and they had to lay people off. By the way, we didn't, you know, pop through COVID, where we could have laid off 32 people and we didn't, right, where we've set our company up, and we're in industries, and we're, we're set up in a way that it's safe, we're not going to do layoffs, we're always growing. We've got, you know, 20 plus career tracks, 40 different positions, people can literally recreate themselves underneath one roof, you could double your salary in a year, if you want, you could start a fucking company with us, if you want, we're open to a lot of things. As long as you're working hard, you're positive. And you're gonna have me believing that because someone can't work from home five days a week, they have no interest in being here, bullshit. Like, what's the real problem, because someone that is a remote worker, if they were so bought into what we're doing and understanding where we're going, and what that could look like for them. They're asked to come in the office five days a week, like unless it's just not physically possible, right. So that's not the issue. That's not the issue. The issue is to somebody understand what we're all about, where we're going, where we're growing, where they could go, what it means to them, how important it is to the customer, why people in the office might need to a couple of days a week, hear how good they are at doing certain things. So those people could learn from them. There's just a lot more to the story. And if you're getting in the weeds a little bit and, and locking arms and engaging, then you're just going to know what what what's really going on. Yes. Just couldn't recommend doing it anymore.

Jeff Winters:

Because then when people bring you stuff, this is the this is the positive two months down the road and people go, man, this is what the people think you have no choice but to trust them. Once that's told to you, unless you're down in the weeds and go, Wait a minute, I was just there. I talked to 120 people. That is not the case. That's not what I'm, that's not what I've experienced. And

Scott Scully:

you know, what happens over time? The same person you're meeting with is like, well, I know Jeff's gonna, like, I'm gonna, I know Jeff's gonna go sit on a team. So I'm just going to tell him reality. Yep. I'm not going to just say, well, this is the way it is. And it's how it has to be, I'm gonna say, I may say this is the way it is. Here's some other things that are going on. Here's what I think we can do about it. Because they know, you're going to know as well, you guys both have a window into it. It's not coming through three layers to you.

Jeff Winters:

Another benefit here for the people who are on the team or on the sales call or part of the shadow that you go into as a leader, great opportunity for them. Great opportunity for them. Ada network in the organization. No, no two ways about it just is what it is be to learn. But see, I gotta tell you, every time I do this, I find a top performer diamond in the rough type of individual who's awesome. And I'm going wait a minute, I didn't even know about her. She is a stud that this this person's going places and I didn't even didn't even know it. And I look back on those experiences. And those people are now in a leadership meetings that they're the leaders need to go dive in. It's a cool, that's a cool thing.

Scott Scully:

Talent Search. And not everybody, especially if they're a young leader has the ability to eyeball those gems. Oh, that's a good point. Yeah. So you're right. Every single time I've done it, I was like, Holy crap, that person's good. Yeah. Like that person is better than someone. Two levels up like that's exciting. Yes. Yeah, that's a that's actually just as important as anything else.

Jeff Winters:

Well, we missed air safe to say

Scott Scully:

we did. He said feeling a little under under the weather. So we wish him well. We hope we didn't proud. We we did We missed him in this conversation for sure.

Jeff Winters:

We try to leave people with with takeaways, oftentimes five of them. Err can remember five, I'm not that good. So I have one I have but one takeaway from the show. I'm gonna say what it is. Yeah. As CEOs, presidents, as leaders of organizations, companies and divisions, spend a lot more time working in the business than on the business. That's the takeaway. Love it. How do we do? Let's grow. Let's grow. Until next time, always be growing. Always be

Eric Watkins:

growing. Thanks for listening to the Grow show. Leave us a review and Let us know how we're doing or if there's a topic you'd like us to cover in the future.

Jeff Winters:

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