The Grow Show: Business Growth Stories from the Frontlines

Episode 21: Why Salesforce Isn't Just For Your Sales Force feat. Chris Gooding of Abstrakt Cloud Solutions

September 09, 2022 Scott Scully, Jeff Winters, Eric Watkins Season 1 Episode 21
The Grow Show: Business Growth Stories from the Frontlines
Episode 21: Why Salesforce Isn't Just For Your Sales Force feat. Chris Gooding of Abstrakt Cloud Solutions
Show Notes Transcript

Chris Gooding, President of Abstrakt Cloud Solutions, enjoyed working with Salesforce for Abstrakt Marketing Group so much that he decided to start his own business around the product. In this episode, we dive into why Salesforce is the leading CRM, what goes into a successful implementation, and what the future might hold for the company. Find out more about how you can leverage this tool throughout your entire company in this week's episode.

Thanks for listening!

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Welcome to the grove show where we make it easier for entrepreneurs and leaders to grow their businesses. You'll hear from real leaders with real stories about their successes and failures. So you don't have to make the same mistakes. We won't break out textbooks or talk theory only raw stories from the front lines with actionable takeaways. The growth show is sponsored by abstract cloud solutions, leveraging the power of the Salesforce platform to solve complex business problems, the straightforward solutions. Here's the next episode of the Grow Show. Welcome back to the gross show. I'm here with my partner in growth. Jeff winters. Welcome back. Jeff, how are we doing today? We're good. Do we have some some guests in the studio today? Our future? podcasters in training? That's right. We have Charlie over there on your right throat. And then we have William over there. Throat. You know what we got here? Last day before school starts last day before school? No camp? No, no, you guys know my new my next invention. It's going to be life changing game changing. What is it? I'm going to invent a summer camp that goes from the last day of school. Till the first day of school, the first day of school, every summer camp leaves out like four weeks, and these kids got nothing to do. And so they're watching daddy podcast and playing on their tablets playing on their tablets, right? They're fired up. They're fired up. Well, in addition to that, and we have a special guest here as well. Our very own Chris Gooding, Chris, how you doing? Good. Good. Thanks for having me. Yeah, absolutely. We've been wanting to get you on the podcast here, Chris is are the third leg of our president's stool. Right now. He is the president of abstract cloud solutions. And Chris, his background is with CRMs. And specifically Salesforce, he is the Salesforce guru expert. He's helped launch this company. You know, he's been with abstract since its inception, 13 years ago. And he's run our operations for 10 years. And you know, what he did was establish our entire process, entire calling process tech stack Salesforce infrastructure. And four years ago, he went off on his own and started his own business abstract cloud solutions. And overnight, you know, basically turning this company into $3 million in revenue this year, and multiple employees. And it's just been cool to see. And we wanted to get them on the podcast, because I think what we haven't really hit on is the technology side of things. Right. And, you know, we've been doing a lot of mindset, a lot of sales skills, a lot of the tangibles when it comes to the marketing. And you know, what we haven't driven into is really how we're leveraging technology as a company. So we're excited to have Chris on today, Chris, what is cloud solutions do right now? And what are some of your focuses? So at its core, we implement and customize Salesforce, to tailor it to any business that we happen to be working with and businesses, nonprofits, higher education, you name it, there's a place for Salesforce in those types of organizations. And we get in there and we uncover their challenges. There's a reason why they bought Salesforce, they wanted to better their business in some way. And so we look under the hood, see what things their people are doing that, you know, maybe be on spreadsheets, or systems that don't quite talk the way that they'd like them to, and kind of lay out a roadmap of what that business could do over time to streamline things and just make their their business just more intune. Why Salesforce, let's start there. You could do this with any CRM, you know, we landed on Salesforce here, why do you think Salesforce is the best company. So when I joined the team, abstract in the very beginning, they did have a CRM in place, it was definitely a dinosaur though of a CRM. And at the time, Li, our IT team here, he was spending most of his days building reports in the CRM because there weren't any native reporting capabilities. So right away, I knew that if we were going to grow this business the way that everybody wanted to, we're gonna need the right tech stack. And the first thing we're gonna have to do was find the right CRM. At the time, there weren't as many players in the space, but Salesforce was definitely the front runner, and they have just continued to be over the years. But we made the decision early on that we were going to get a license for every employee that we had, regardless of what department they were in, and it was going to be the backbone of our business. Why do you think we made that decision? That's, that's tough. A lot of people don't do that. It's a lot of money. It is a lot of money and I think what we found just in the very beginning, the amount of time that we were saving by employees spending time just doing mundane things day after day, we were able to almost eliminate day one of launching Salesforce. And we knew that was just like scratching the surface of what this could do over time. But But yeah, it was pretty exciting to get that off the ground initially, and to immediately have improved the business and the scalability, that we were going to be able to take it to the next level. Because it just as you all know, Salesforce is the most well known CRM, in the CES in the space right now. And they've just made some really strategic acquisitions that have just made it stronger over time. Chris, I got I got a couple of questions for you. So can you just talk for a second around the evolution that you mentioned acquisitions? Can you just talk about where Salesforce was when we saw when you started seeing using it here? And then other clients? And then sort of where it's come? Yeah, so it's, you know, what they call core was sales, cloud and service cloud. And really, Service Cloud is actually eclipsing Sales Cloud in terms of sales these days? And what is what's the difference? So Service Cloud is really more catered towards making the best client experience possible. You know, there's Sales Cloud, which is the one that most people know Salesforce for, that's where it kind of got its start. And that's your typical CRM, managing sales, you know, the, the getting the deals in the door, right? But then it's what happens after that, how do you take just incredible care of your customers, Service Cloud is the tool to do that. And it pairs so nicely with Sales Cloud. So a lead turns into an opportunity turns into an account. And there's just this whole service aspect of it after that, that I mean, from there's things called like digital engagement, and things where you've got experienced cloud supporters, you can create for your customers where they can, you can expose whatever pieces of their account to them, so that you can create these like self, or self service portals or so those are the kind of the core sides of it, but then there's Pardot, and marketing cloud. So on the, with the marketing side of the business here at abstract. Naturally, for us on the abstract cloud solution side, we have had to do a lot of work in that space, because it kind of is a nice complement to what we do on the marketing side. Somebody you know, doesn't necessarily have the technical abilities in house or the even the marketing team internally, to put the content, the design. So what we can do is we can take all of that stuff from the marketing side of our business, we can take the technical side of it and create one really powerful implementation of those other products like Pardot and marketing cloud. But you know, they've acquired Tableau, and more recent mule soft is another one. So mule soft is the the integration platform, which I'll get into here in a little bit about what I think the future looks like for Salesforce and, and how that company is having all these different systems, legacy systems, but now they're on Salesforce and trying to bring all that into kind of one source of truth in the customer. 360 is what Salesforce likes to refer to it as Yeah, Chris, what you just saw there between me and Eric, and for those that are listening, we do a video system, I'd be what that was a pro podcast, who's going to ask the next question. Look, that's what that was. I can tell you a little confused. But that's what that was. That was the who's going to ask the next question nonverbal? We're getting good at that. Yeah, we are Who do you think's going to ask the next question based on that note? I think that was me. That's you. Yeah, you were giving it to me? So my question, which is interesting, is I feel like the name it doesn't hurt them, because it's such an established brand, but its sales force. And it's so much more than that now. Right? You're talking about service cloud. And that's actually what they're selling more. Have they talked about? Is that a thing? That's because it's so much our business entirely runs off this sales is just 10%. That's a great point. You know, you look at how we use it here, sales, account management, operations, project management, accounting, HR facilities, like you name it, every aspect of our business is in Salesforce. And we've kind of made it into an ERP in a lot of ways. A lot of companies that we work with, they want to integrate with an existing ERP system, but here we've kind of made it all of that right. And to your point about the the name Salesforce is kind of it seems limiting, when in reality, it can be so much more than that. And, you know, especially now like think about even like in higher ed, it's been used in universities, Salesforce doesn't really make sense in terms of the name there, but as a product, it's a perfect solution for for even that space. Chris question. So, if I if I break down the To the Salesforce potential customer, and then go all the way through the advanced customer. Can we talk just for a second about the potential customer? For our for folks out there who are like, Is this the time I should bring a CRM, like what should they be looking for as problems they need to solve? Where you go, okay, Salesforce is going to be a solution at this point, my business? Great question. And a lot of thought goes into like, what CRM is a company going to use? Are we are we too small to use a product like Salesforce. And the reality is, there are companies and we've worked with companies as small as a few people, and their company's 100,000 plus employees using Salesforce. So there's, there's no right or wrong time to get into a platform like this. And they also have these kind of price points that cater to the different levels of business that you might be in. So for example, a brand new startup, just getting going just want to have a way to organize the start of their business, they've got a product called Essentials at a rack rate of $25 a license, but it gets them kind of in Salesforce in that ecosystem understanding, you know, how that tool can can start there with them, but also scale with them as they as they grow it. And, you know, the licenses go from anywhere from like, $25, up to $300. But, you know, on the higher end of that you get, you know, a lot more integration capabilities, a lot more data storage API's, so you can integrate with with more things. So it really can ride along with you on your growth journey. And in there's just no wrong way to or wrong time to get into it. So there's a wrong way to get into it. But there isn't a wrong time. Yeah, not if you use abstract cloud solutions is what he was trying to say. There's no wrong way. So the minute you get or invest into a CRM is the same time where people refuse to put their information into the CRM. So let's talk adoption. How do you get you know, with your partners, it's only as good as the data that people are inputting into it. So how do you how do you guys coach adoption with your clients and get that? So the way that it tends to start you, you have, you know, maybe the CEO or some higher level individuals within the company that come at you with all these things that they want to do like the big picture, the pie in the sky dream of what they want Salesforce to do. And the reality is, if we tried to do all of that for them right out of the gate, it would be overwhelming, they would not be able to adoption is just harder when you're trying to throw everything at them all at once. So Salesforce practices this when they like sell product, and we do the same on the implementation side is we take that crawl Walk Run approach. So we identify like, what are those phase one type things that are going to get you in there kind of that minimally viable use of Salesforce, and then we want to establish what that future roadmap looks like, lay out the future phases. So they can kind of see what that journey is going to look like for them. But to your point about adoption, it is everything, like you could have the best, the best tool that it can be implemented the best way possible. But if you don't have buy in from the very highest level, all the way down to your employees that are going to be getting on it for the first time, it just won't be a success. And so we've always taken this approach where implementing it is one thing, but we want to be there with you as you're launching it right, and being able to kind of hold hands with with your employees and, and give them the support they need, you know, taking on this new technology. And in really that has kind of been the way we've established these long term relationships with clients is we kind of become an extension of their business. And as those new ideas come up, like we're kind of there we can we know their business, you know, along the way. And we can make suitable rock recommendations based on based on what we're finding along the way. So, but adoption is it is absolutely, in my opinion, the most important part of implementation, like above everything else. Because if there's the Biden's not there, and they're not kind of, in some ways forced to use it, it just the whole thing won't be successful. Do you? Do you? Do you like the phrase, if it didn't happen in Salesforce? It didn't happen? One of the best or the best year not all the time. It really, I just don't know how to do it. Because Because here's what I bet people run it. I know, this is what we ran into when we implemented a different CRM. Everybody was like, bought in and used it but we had a couple of super high performers are like London's not going to do this. I got I'm like, my the way I'm doing it the way I'm doing it is working. Why do I super high performing salesperson have to adopt it? And we would sort of go, hey, you know, we'll figure it out. Or we'll work on it. But but you can't do that, right? You can't. It's got to be an all or nothing. And, you know, really it's got to be almost the next Dream that doesn't exist if it's not in Salesforce, but you also don't get paid a commission, leave your sales rep, if it's not in sales, is that what you do? It's gotta be that extreme. I think in some cases, especially some of these industries that you get into where they haven't historically embraced technology, and this is kind of their first move towards it. You know, there's a lot of people that are set in their old ways of like doing sales, and not that it hasn't been successful for them. But for a business to be organized and to be set up for for growth. You just have to kind of force that on, on people. Love that. So you've, I don't want to shortchange, obviously, you're the Salesforce expert, and Guru. But you've also helped us establish and bring in new technologies to the organization along the way. And a lot of businesses out there who are listening to this podcast, are in these spots where people on their team are coming to them with this software package saying, This is the greatest self wherever we need this tomorrow. Talk to me about like, what are some things businesses should be thinking about when making these investments in technology? And sort of how do you do it in the right way? So you really need to, to look beyond like the CRM, you mean, just like just the total? Yeah, just total tech stack? In Yeah, I mean, because Salesforce is, you know what, while it can be set up as the backbone of business, it is just one piece of a company's tech stack, right? Like, sure. There, it's very hard to eliminate all other tech stacks with, you know, Salesforce products. So there's that need to really understand how those other systems need to communicate with Salesforce. Because at the end of the day, the goal is to provide all the Salesforce users that again, that customer 360, that 180 degree or 360 degree view, but that one source of truth for the employees to know where any customers that anyone point, and a lot of times clients will have a tech stack that we're kind of coming in and evaluating, seeing how we can connect it to Salesforce, but in some cases, they don't. And they need those kind of third party plugins for Salesforce that we go evaluate for them, show them the differences and kind of help make that determination. So Salesforce is kind of the core of what we do, but they're all these kind of third party apps that you start to get really familiar with, and, and know the strong ones out there that that are going to be best suited for the companies that we're working with. Well, and I think, you know, one thing that's really helped us is making every contract have to be signed by one person in our organization, you know, when we went through the acquisition, and Jeff, you can probably speak to this, we had a lot of duplicate software's that we were using, and not having that flow through one person, if you let your you know, heads of department, sign off on every new software, you might be using the same software in three different spots your business as you continue to grow, that is a great point. And we have gone through that even before cyber came into the fold their software, so easy to buy, right, you go sign up for a trial, put a credit card, credit card number in and all of a sudden, you know, you have this tool, and a lot of people in the company don't even know we have it. And then you have these weird contract terms that no one else knew about. So it gets expensive, right? Like there's a lot of software expense in businesses these days. And if you're not careful, it can get out of hand. And so to your point about kind of centralizing where that software software decisions in the contract terms are done, you're just going to create a more kind of unified approach to buying software, and just a more cost effective approach to it as well. We've kind of gone through that exercise here of trying to get our arms around all the software's that we have the contracts, co terming things as best we can so that we don't have all these contracts on different terms. And it's been a challenge but I think in the end, we'll end up saving money and just have a lot more organized, you know, tech stack going forward. So Chris, obviously you're working with Salesforce as you are living breathing with different clients, seeing what how they're operating and Salesforce have good relationships with a lot of individuals at the company, where do you see them going in the future? I think they're going to continue to find the right acquisitions at the right time. That just that's just kind of been their history, you know, they have over the years they bought ExactTarget became marketing cloud Pardot was a standalone became part of the family. Tableau, Slack, mule soft, so they just but they all serve a purpose and they fit the platform really nicely. And, you know, for example, some recent acquisitions, mule soft and, and slack. Mule soft is all about integrations. That's in my opinion, the future of Salesforce and technology is just making these systems talk So very timely acquisition there. And they just here this week, I believe rolled out a new product to make these like more simple bot type of connection points between platforms. Slack, you know, the thing that the days of COVID have led to like the need for these, like really good communication tools. And slack kind of became the front runner in that space. And during COVID, they went out and bought Slack. So it I just feel like they have a pulse on like, what the future is before we all do. And it's like they're out there, you know, making those acquisitions at the right time. And it just continues to make that platform stronger and stronger. The ecosystem just continues to build. And it's, it's good for, for us as customers, but also us as, as a Salesforce partner as well. Do you see them? You know, when you think, yeah, obviously, their foundation is sales in Salesforce. And when you think sales, you can't do it without data, you can't do it without coaching and training technology? Do you see them competing with Zoom info, or even phone systems and getting into that with Zoom or getting over into Gong and call intelligence? Do you see them just trying to literally take over the whole space? Because they could like a by all of them? I would say, you know, I know nothing about this or whether or not that's this is not financial advice, what you're saying, but but I, you know, if you look at just this history of their acquisitions, I would say, you know, they've invested a lot in this product of theirs called Einstein. So it is more about AI and managing and understanding your data, and making good decisions from the data that you have. The world is going more towards AI, I would imagine, whether it's through acquisition or through additional, you know, features that they've released on their own platform. That's just it is the way of the future. And in businesses like ours, we have so much data to your point about like zoominfo they one point we're in the space of of data, and they kind of got out of it, you know, they bought Jigsaw back in the day and turned into data.com. And they have since sunsetted that business, that business unit. So whether or not they get back into like, data specifically, I don't know. But AI, I'd say we'll be continuing to improve. And, again, whether that's through acquisition or our new build for them. Awesome to be determined. I guess Fun fact, you want to Fun fact, I was gonna give you a fun. You had a fun fact. I did data.com Fact. The free trips. Yeah, if you got any data to come in my operation specialist days due to the credits, I added to data.com I got a free Vegas trip every year for the conference. No kidding. No kidding. He was very sad. You had a status within that. I was the Rainmaker, the Rainmaker, you literally had a name, forget they gave us a big deal. I walked around that conference, they knew. They knew the Rainmaker was here, maybe you're the reason they shut data. Just clogging it with bad data. When we started the business, we found jigsaw, I just couldn't believe it. You know, it seems so great. I couldn't believe get people's contact information by just dumping in a nickel or whatever it was. And it was the bit the business model was so brilliant because you could you put in data. And it would give you this what I was talking about as well as the Rainmaker, you could put in like someone else's information, and don't even they validated it. Maybe it did. Maybe they didn't. And then in return, you got to credit. So it was this community? Yeah, it was ridiculous. Well, that's kind of how we used it. I mean, we would cleanse data, and then we take that cleanse data, and we put good data in there. Oh, yeah. No, no, I'm not saying they didn't validate it. But it was engineered, peer validated peer. Thank you peer validated. Yeah, absolutely. Well, that's great. Let me let me let me turn because in addition to you being the Salesforce expert, you're also somebody who's taken a business from zero to a few million dollars in revenue. And you've done it in sort of an interesting environment, your company inside a company, and I think there's a lot of that. So, but but where I want to start is, I think fair to say, you're a more technical founder, versus a sales driven founder. So maybe just share some thoughts for other sort of more technical founders, on how to make sure you're balancing between technical and sales when you're not naturally a sales founder. Good question. So I guess just to kind of give a little bit more of a background on kind of how, how we got here and how this business got started. We because we were such early users of Salesforce, you know, back in early 2010 was when we really started to to embrace it. And we struggled with implementation just like a lot of companies do. We, we kind of self implemented we went and found some individuals that can They helped us a little bit back then. But it was a struggle. And what we realized is that it really takes a team of people with different skill sets to, to make it successful. And as we grew the marketing business, we grew the Salesforce team to support it. And as our customer base grew, we found more customers that needed help with Salesforce. And at the time, we started having a team here that could help them. So it was a lot of nights and weekends kind of early on to get this thing started. And then all of a sudden, we realized, like this was a viable business opportunity for us. And to your point about being more on the operational and technical side. This was a platform, I was so passionate about that it was easy to kind of talk about and in to sell, right? Like, it wasn't like a hard sell for me to go talk to a business about how Salesforce could could be the solution for them, or how we could implement it in a way that just totally changes their business, look at their business in the future. And so once we established like this was a viable business, we kind of started building a team dedicated to clients to client work. And we started making some really good connections with AES at Salesforce. And it's been a nice kind of hybrid of like, getting some clients from our marketing side of our business, but also, the referrals that we get from AES has been been great. And you know, you got to do good work. And it's a it's a competitive space, it really is. Yeah, but, but if you're doing good work, and in providing value to Salesforce and their customers, you know, I think that's, it's kind of like a snowball effect, right? Like, people at ease get promoted, they move up up market. And, you know, we've been able to kind of build and maintain those relationships with them as they go. And I absolutely attribute that to a big part of our growth. And, you know, we've also, this is a hard market of hiring as everyone knows, and we've been lucky enough over the years to be able to hire really good people from within the parent company. So we've been able to get people trained, get them certified, bring them over. And that's just something that other partners really don't have the luxury of right, like we've you know, there's that wildcard factor of hiring off the street, you don't really know if they're gonna be good or not, we're able to kind of prove people out here, make sure they're trained up at the level they need to be trained at to put them in this consulting type of role. And we just feel really good about the team that we're building. And it's, it's just all about the people. And if without that Salesforce doesn't trust in us to, you know, bring us their customers. So, does that answer your question? It? Yeah, it's a perfect answer. And just to dive into one piece of, of what you said, you talked about one of the structural advantages that you have being a business inside of a business sort of being incubated by this by this larger enterprise, because abstract owns, yeah, can you can you talk recruiting was one, I bet there's other people out there who are starting businesses inside of other businesses, and you do such an excellent job, what are some other things you recommend they take advantage of. So I think, you know, looking back, you know, I had the decision back then, you know, I could have maybe gone and done this on my own and, you know, or all those struggles, you know, you walk away from your, your day to day job with a salary, the risk you take with a family and all that stuff. And what I realized here is I had, I had recruiting, I had accounting, I had HR, all these, like policies and stuff already established, you know, incredible coworkers that that really knew this platform well already. And then just kind of took the a lot of the risk out of it as somebody starting a business and, and also having the name to establish an established name that's kind of known around the country. From a lead generation standpoint, it felt better to kind of piggyback off of that, than just go start from scratch. And for me, being in that role, I was able to kind of when the business got to a point where I felt like I could, you know, come up off of one and into the other. So I kind of played a hybrid role, I would say, between businesses. And that was a hard transition. But kind of made that leap here over the last couple years. And you know, it was the right time. And I feel like could not have done that on my own without, you know, having that bigger company to do it with was was a blessing. And I think, a big part of why we're where we are. I really do. I think that's something as well. And obviously, it's something that we talk about a lot of, you know, if you want to go start your own business, why don't you start it under the abstract umbrella because of all the reasons you just said and I think there's probably people out there that are maybe thinking about starting their own business before they would go to their ownership of their current company and say, Hey, I have a really good idea. But I don't want to go through this pain. I've seen it. I've heard about it, I don't want to deal with it. What can I do? What are you willing to work out with me if I were to do it under your umbrella? And I think you should always exhaust that option first. I couldn't agree any more and having not exhausted that that option, did it the other way. I mean, there's just so much little pain that you avoid. Chris alluded to it, the HR, the finance, the policies, think about all that stuff when you're, you know, like, you're thinking about the product or service you want to sell, but not all those extra things that you that you're going to need as well. Right, exactly. And I think more often than not, people would find that if they went to the CEO, the owner, whoever the business and you go, hey, you know, I love this company, I love my job. I'm really passionate about this idea, it's tangential to what we do. Could I maybe start working on this? I think you'd be shocked at how receptive people would be. Because the other side of it is, hey, I'm leaving and go pursue this thing. So what if you did that here, and I think especially today, with the market being the macro economy, the market being a little less stable, to your point, you got a family like, hey, let's, let's take advantage of some of the resources of this company, keep my job, stay engaged, but also go pursue what I'm passionate about? Absolutely. It was the best case scenario. And you know, when I approached Scott Scully, our CEO about one of your partners and growth, about doing this, it was just, he fully embraced it. It wasn't like, why we shouldn't or why that's going to take us off track or what it was, how are we going to make this happen? And it's, I'm glad I brought it up, because there's probably a world where I wouldn't have done that in the past. But yeah, I'm glad I did. And I think we're, we're a better business because of it. Without question, yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, the culture, right, like, being able to have the culture that the that the parent company has kind of established across the the organizations as well, you know, those are all things that you can starting a new business, you gotta like, that all takes time and effort and resource to do vision for our people to you know, there's a lot of individuals in that, yeah, talented individuals in your side of the business, that it was a little bit something different, and maybe a little bit more geared towards their skill set. So it's a win for everybody. It is I want to talk for just one second about the client win. Because, you know, on on sapper side of the business, we have a very similar consulting business unit. The thing with consulting companies is it they're traditionally really hard to staff. Because the work can be can come in sort of haphazardly, you know, it's it can be feast, it can be famine. And so it's like, Okay, do I have consultants who aren't working on engagements at all, and they're sort of sitting on the bench, and we're paying them, so when they need to tap in they can. But for us, it's like, we have these huge pockets of people that we can always have kind of rotating in and out of the consulting, like, talk about how valuable that is for a client. Yeah, I mean, there's a couple big benefits from a client standpoint, as well as us, you know, we're able to charge a more competitive rate than a lot of our competitors. Because we are, you know, instead of having a bench, which is kind of the norm in this space, waiting for that next project and having resource kind of available to take that on, we, we always have initiatives on the parent company side, where if there's extra resource, we always can take on a new initiative that was maybe kind of backlogged. So that's one benefit there. But we've really pushed a lot of our engagement starters, projects, that's just the nature of the space. But we've really gotten clients to understand the value of having a partner like us, along for the ride with them, you know, where they have a certain number of hours per month, and they have access to the whole team, whatever type of resource they need, for the initiatives at hand. And it's like Salesforce actually recently rolled out a managed service model for the partner side, which we're now part of, and it is it's built doing a project and walking away, it's just not going to lead to success and adoption for their customers. And they know that and that's why they're really pushing this managed service model. And, and that's where I think that's where the future of this really is for us and companies like us in this space. Well, this has been a pleasure, Chris, thank you for coming on here today with you know, I'm sure there's a lot of people out there listening to this episode thinking I need to talk to this guy, I need help with my CRM, where can they find you yet? Our website is abstract cloud.com abstract is ABS Tra Que te cloud.com. We have forums on there. We were on the AppExchange on Salesforce AppExchange just search abstract cloud solutions. And we got ways to reach our team on there as well. So yeah, appreciate me and good talk me. Always be growing always be grow as we grow. The gross show is sponsored by abstract marketing group whose outsourced sales and marketing services provide you with everything you need to close consistent business for less than the cost of a full time employee.