The Grow Show: Business Growth Stories from the Frontlines

Episode 14: Don't Settle For Less: Why You Should Hire Adaptable People

July 08, 2022 Scott Scully, Jeff Winters, Eric Watkins Season 1 Episode 14
The Grow Show: Business Growth Stories from the Frontlines
Episode 14: Don't Settle For Less: Why You Should Hire Adaptable People
Show Notes Transcript

Have you considered the power of moving a tenured team member into a new area of focus? This episode covers the importance of putting your best people on your biggest problem, the benefits this practice can have on retention, and the skills your team must have in order to succeed in this environment. 

Thanks for listening!

Eric Watkins:

Welcome to the grove show where we make it easier for entrepreneurs and leaders to grow their businesses. You'll hear from real leaders with real stories about their successes and failures. So you don't have to make the same mistakes. We won't break out textbooks or talk theory only raw stories from the front lines with actionable takeaways.

Unknown:

The bro show sponsored by abstract cloud solutions, leveraging the power of the Salesforce platform to solve complex business problems with straightforward solutions. Here's the next episode of the Grow show.

Eric Watkins:

All right, welcome back to the growth show. It's good to be back. I'm here with my partners and growth as usual Scott Sculley. What's up, Jeff winters

Jeff Winters:

Welcome back, everybody.

Eric Watkins:

Welcome back. We have some exciting stuff to talk about today, we're going to talk about some adaptability and, and why it's important to bring the right people in and create that culture. But before you know, we like to chop it up a little bit. And, you know, our very own partner and growth here Scott had a big pickleball game. Oh, boy, this past week. So for those, Jeff, would you mind giving everybody just describing what Pickleball is for the masses? Since a lot of people don't know?

Jeff Winters:

I've never played pickleball but from my understanding, and I don't look, I think Pickleball is divisive, but pickleball apparently, is tennis. But everything is just smaller. Isn't that right? Nope,

Eric Watkins:

no, that's ping pong.

Jeff Winters:

Is that totally wrong?

Scott Scully:

Yep. All right. So someone described this to me, and I would I would say they were dead on it's like playing ping pong. And you're standing on the table. It's seriously it is an oversized Ping Pong Pong racket with and I didn't think this it actually would be but it's with a wiffle ball.

Eric Watkins:

Like the lighter wiffle ball, wiffle ball. Wow. So it is, how could you get into something that much with a wiffle ball?

Scott Scully:

You know what? I got it. I'm kind of surprised. Pretty fun.

Jeff Winters:

Kind of love that.

Scott Scully:

I know. Let's let's get it. Let's get this clear. I'm competitive and I hate sucking at things. You know, and when I when I have some people firing the ball at me and I'm not performing at a high level a certain amount of frustration in that, but it was fun. Like I would I would do it and you know, you drank while playing. That's good.

Eric Watkins:

Oh, really? That's fine. That sounds like a lot of movement. That's not really up your alley, Jeff.

Scott Scully:

Couples, couples can do it.

Eric Watkins:

out. You're out why?

Jeff Winters:

I'm sorry. Keep going?

Eric Watkins:

No. Why are you out? You Why? Why Katie doesn't want to play a

Scott Scully:

couple of the couples things finally worried about her being better.

Jeff Winters:

I don't want to wreck I don't recreate in that way. Why not me? Explain yourself. This and I don't mean to sound any particular way about this. This is not I just I'm like the competitive thing is like I'm not I don't have a healthy balance of like, competitive versus recreational. I cannot do things recreationally. I'm not bragging. This is a bad thing. I wish I could have some. There's none of it. It's just like, either I'm, I'm and I'm a horrible winner and loser. So it's like, I just don't want to do that shit with friends. I just wanted to compete or not, I don't want to recreate.

Scott Scully:

As a competitive person. It's a little frustrated. In the beginning. I wanted to be better than I was. The game evens the playing field. From an athleticism perspective, like I played with people that played sports didn't play sports. You know, and there were people that were really good at it that had just played for a while. Yeah. So you've got different types of people playing together that can play together. It's fun. You can do it on a while we did it on a Friday night, had some drinks. And I And by the way, I was kind of surprised. I was sweating my ass off and run around a little bit because I'd work because I didn't I mean, I wanted to be better than I was. But it was fun. Can't do it again. Do you win or not? Some games.

Eric Watkins:

Some more, more or less games?

Scott Scully:

Probably won more games won Morgan last. There

Eric Watkins:

you go. Awesome. Well, you know, Jeff seems a little stagnant and wasn't. And today, those aren't the people we're looking for. We're looking for the adaptable people and we're going to talk about you know, everything we're communicating about here is about growth and growing your business. And if you want to do this and do this at scale, some of the things you need to think about while you're doing it, and one of the keys to our success is to bring on the right people in the first place that are very adaptable can do a lot of different things and are willing to do a lot of different things. And then in addition to that, once you bring these people in, really leveraging that competency, and creating a mobility culture, where they can move through different roles in different parts of the company solve different problems. Ultimately, what it creates is just an environment where these people thrive, right, and you're going to be better as a business, because it's going to build up this talented group of individuals, for you to promote from within and continue to scale. So, Scott, this has really been your thing, here, the company that you've talked about for a long time. So why don't you introduce this topic a little bit? And tell us what's on your mind?

Scott Scully:

Yeah, thanks, Eric. I mean, you're really hitting the nail on the head, right? It's, it starts from the onset when you recruit somebody, and then it just fosters growth. It's, this is a big topic, I gotta go out, and I gotta find somebody that's adaptable. So that they come in, and they're willing to sometimes go into roles that aren't their favorite, because they're helping the business solve problems. And as they're doing that, you know, they're becoming more well rounded. Several years later, you've got an army of people that have done those things. And you can send somebody over to run a division or maybe run an entire company, we've had that happen here a couple of times, right? The interesting thing to think about is, if you're talking about that, in recruiting, it's like, Listen, why would you come here, you're gonna come here, because we're growing. With our growth, you know, there's lots of different opportunities. And if you're somebody that's willing to come in, not be married to one path, take on some of those opportunities, help us solve problems, you're going to be a more well rounded and more powerful business person that's more valuable to this business, or outside of this business, right? We have people that get recruited from here that go on to do incredible things, because of the things that they learned while they were here. That is, this is opposite from what a lot of people talk about, because they say just go find the best person for that role, period. And put a minute. That's, I understand why why people talk that way. But like, if you're going to ensure growth into the future, and keep people and keep them motivated and wanting to come and wanting to stay, you should be doing a lot of your hiring from within promoting from within. They can't go into this oddball division as somebody that came in maybe through marketing, and less over the last couple of years, they've worn multiple hats, solve multiple problems. And now, this is just the next challenge. We you know, we're sitting here, we've talked about it a lot, we're going to end the year, you know, 60 ish million. We've got really aggressive goals. Now to get to 100. I feel so much more confident sitting here today, that we've got this army of people that have been, you know what I mean? We could name them, right, just these people that have been all over the company, sales, marketing operations, just doing different things, waiting, you know, to run that division or do the next thing to solve the next problem. And it's because we found some really adaptable people that were willing to think about, not just themselves, but the clients in the company as well. I, you know, if there's a top five, I put this one in there, too, that for for our success. What do you think, Jeff?

Jeff Winters:

I think it's a secret weapon. I really do. I think this is a secret weapon of this business. And we've had a few podcasts where I've shared some things that, again, having just joined this business in April of 21. That didn't do prior to coming into this business, but quickly learned quickly, appreciate it in quickly loved. This is one of those things. I was to Scott and Eric's point very much in the camp of go find the best person at that silo, whatever it is, go find the best head of sales, go find the best accountant go find the best success person and put them in and they will then make everyone better, because that's kind of the the general theory in the universe. And this has changed that for me a great deal. And now there's a lot of things you got to do. And again, I'm not saying look, go find a good accountant, like you got to have the rules of accounting, but he was you know, I'm saying like generally speaking, this to me is a secret weapon. Because what you end up with like the outcome is you have this enormous bench, just like Scott said, you have this enormous bench of businesses. honors almost, who can now plug in and fill your most important, like where there are your most important opportunities. And you end up in these rooms where it's like, okay, we've now doubled in size, we've got to add a vice president over here, we've got six people who have done three different jobs, they understand the financials, they understand success, they understand sales, they've done all those quote, unquote, deployments. And now they're ready to lead a business unit. Whereas if you just do specialization, it's really hard to find people who are well rounded enough and well versed enough to go run a division or you make an acquisition to go run that company. And that that's why to me, this is like a secret weapon alert. So there's like a site like a wound, like one of those I would, I would, I would play there for this,

Scott Scully:

God forbid, you lose that one person that knows that one area of your business, and they're the only one that's thought about it, they're running it, maybe they retire, maybe they turn over. God forbid they get sick, that person's gone, you're in trouble. You've got these multi purpose players in your organization where somebody can come in after that individual and, and lead, you're in a better spot.

Eric Watkins:

Yeah, one, one thing we were talking about before this podcast, as we were kind of introducing this topic to one another is the benefit that you both had, starting your companies from scratch. So when you all started out, we talked about how you had to be sales, you had to be operations, you had to be customer service, you had to be accounting, you had to be HR, you had to be training, you did all of those things. So you were so well rounded as you continue to grow up in the organization. You understood those divisions, those departments better. So at abstract, you know, and sapper, what our goal is to continue to grow this. And what we're really looking at as the future leaders of this company are not just future leaders of a department, but their future business owners, we have plans to acquire more businesses start more business enterprises, and have these individuals run these companies. So we have to figure out how do we replicate what you all got in the beginning, with a more established experienced company. And I think one way we've done that is just using people in different spots, like what are the biggest problems we have as a company and who's the best person to solve it,

Scott Scully:

one suggestion that I would have is, is to talk about it upfront, and to celebrate it, and to get people used to it. And as you had said, Eric, you had to build the culture. For that, cause in the beginning, it was about, oh, we're changing this, or Oh, you're gonna have me do that now. Like, this is the fifth role I've played. And early on, I don't think we did a good enough job of saying why they just thought we're just going to put them in one more role. You remember, we had the company meetings, and we'd literally talked about the five year or the 10. Year played 12 roles. Right? And, and that in the beginning, I think, was looked at as a negative lecturer, we're changing so much. And I wish if I could go backwards, we would have done a better job of letting people know why. Like, yes, you're going to play this role than this role than that role. And then five years from now, you're going to be sitting here as a more powerful person, and this business is going to be in a better spot, because of it. See, after the whole culture part of it, and getting people to understand why they would play multiple roles and why you would change. That's a big piece of this.

Jeff Winters:

I want to share a few of the other benefits that I've I've come to see from this for those that are listening and may be on the fence or thinking I don't quite understand why this is such a great idea. Because sounds like a bad idea. Because I like my account manager to be account managers, and my salespeople to be salespeople. And that's what I want, because that's how they're going to develop their expertise. Let me let me share a few benefits that might help further our side of the argument. First, empathy. Empathy is an interesting one. Because it's very easy if you don't walk in someone's shoes, ie have ever done their job to think that someone's job is easier than it actually is. Guess what everybody thinks somebody else's job is easy, and it's not. And if you've been in that role, like if you've, if you're an account manager and you've bopped around, and then you're like, oh, that's sales pretty easy. I'll try my Oh, wait a minute, people, 90 people out of 100 Tell me No, that's not that easy. Well, maybe I'll pop over here. There's this empathy thing that I think is really important. I'll share a couple others and then I'll circulate it around. The second is retention, retention, you are losing people at your business right now. or you're in danger of losing people because they don't know where they are going or they're not excited about where they're going. This is for people who like this, this is as good as it gets. Because now, they can not only move up a little level up a mini level up to a manager, the entire company is an opportunity for their mobility, they could go be a graphic designer, from an account manager, there is no limit on what you can do. And so your next job could be totally different than your current job.

Eric Watkins:

Quick point on that. Yeah. In this day and age, people love variety. Like they just love variety, like I go to a restaurant, I'm already talking to my two buddies about what they're going to order. So I can get a little bit of that little bit of what I ordered a little bit of the appetizer, you got to have variety.

Jeff Winters:

First, so I don't I don't want to I want to make sure I don't stamp that I

Eric Watkins:

agree with you don't agree with you don't want to split meals.

Jeff Winters:

I hate that. I just might want to tell whoever is listening. Oh, you

Scott Scully:

don't try to take a bite of Jeff's meal. It's quite it's

Eric Watkins:

coming from the guy who went to a Mexican restaurant and got two case studies. To $14 case study is not small, like little

Jeff Winters:

like, do you know I did that? Because I didn't want to take any years which furthers my point. I don't want to ever share food.

Eric Watkins:

You offered me a case study if I wanted one.

Jeff Winters:

For the record, can we note this? I don't want to share food. I'm not interested in that.

Eric Watkins:

Then don't offer me with my family. I feel like I feel like

Scott Scully:

it was just there was only when he knew that there was no way that he was going to Yeah,

Eric Watkins:

he was finished. Why would you have moved on

Jeff Winters:

like, and maybe this is a trite point and then I'll move on to something more important but like

Eric Watkins:

you don't like you don't like Friday, it's okay. It's

Jeff Winters:

like I know what I like in a food setting. Like let me get it and you've never

Eric Watkins:

looked at the menu and been like, Man, I don't know what I'm gonna get between these three issues.

Jeff Winters:

That's not how life works. You go Oh, I'd love to do half of this and three quarters. I

Scott Scully:

don't know Jeff, we're talking about people. We're talking about variety coming in and agreeing that sometimes they're gonna

Jeff Winters:

this is sustenance. It's a totally different topic.

Eric Watkins:

All right. Interesting. Yeah.

Scott Scully:

Noted. People do

Eric Watkins:

what's right let's please note this for future people want no ID at Katie Did you note that thing noted that,

Jeff Winters:

by the way, you were saying note that she's not she's pretend

Scott Scully:

I no longer. I'm wondering now, if you are capable of talking about this topic.

Jeff Winters:

I'm worried about food. We're all worried about you area of my life. This is business. Okay. Back to the point, people have variety I'm going to give you so I gave you empathy, which I think is super important. Retention, which I think is super important. And last is knowledge. Because there's you don't want to have as your as you're getting bigger, people end up taking on more and more responsibility and have things that they are just you were you would have a blind spot. If you don't know accounting is the best example. HR is a great example. You don't want people to have those super important blind spots. As they get more and more responsibility in their organization, moving people around ensures that that possibility decreases, it's really important.

Eric Watkins:

I like that a lot. One, one thing that to tie on with the empathy is because you know that you're not stuck in this department or this silo forever, you're a little bit less territorial, who is more, you're more focused on the whole, because you have a better understanding of it. But people become less you know, as a business, you can be in trouble if people like, are only focused on what they're responsible for and forget about everything else around them. And I just think Yeah, the whole, like it really brings the team approach. What do you think are some benefits?

Scott Scully:

I think you guys have hit on on a lot of them. I just the most important, let's just talk about the individual. An individual that is willing to be adaptable, play multiple roles, especially the ones that they don't really want to play that day, ends up further along in their career period. I'm staring at you error. And you took on a role early on that you didn't want to do but it was an important one to learn our business and to understand running a business you did it you you didn't like it, at first you grew to love it. And, you know, then took on that division, right? And now you're, you know, a shareholder in a company and leading a big piece of revenue. I've seen a lot of examples. The person that puts themselves to the side and plays for the client and for the company always gets what they're looking for in the end. But when you're sitting there thinking about me first right now the You don't always get what you want. That's it. That's the I don't even know how to verbalize that. If you could think about how I could help others in the company and the clients, and I'm willing to do that, then I ended up getting mine, right. So like business owners, think about how much they want to make, as opposed to, what problem am I going to solve? How am I going to help people? And then I'm ultimately taken care of over time, tenfold instead of just thinking about me today, gotta find individuals that think that way.

Eric Watkins:

Yeah, let me let me talk about this from the, the person's perspective, the the employee perspective. So I remember, I was in operations, and I had been in the Operations Department for two years. And I was really coming into my own, I felt like I was understanding the role and had a full grasp on what we do as an organization. And I sat down with Scott for he was doing an annual sort of meet with everybody in the company, which was a great exercise. And if you're at the size, you can do it, I would highly recommend doing that. And he brought up moving into the partner sales manager role, which, at the time, sounded scary as hell to me, because I didn't have that skill set. I hadn't set appointments before I hadn't managed people before. And he just said, you know, this is an opportunity for, you know, it's really a training ground for you to increase your skills. And I just kind of had to have some blind faith there. And like you said, I went through my struggles. But ultimately, you know, I don't even know where I'd be, if I didn't make that move. And when you're in that seat, you're thinking about it. Well, A, you have to leave that seat, which is the scariest part because someone's has to replace you, and no one loves being replaced. So you have to take the leap of faith to go into the new position. And the way I look at it is worst case scenario, if I would have gone and I would have failed, I'd be coming back to whatever I'm doing, with so much more knowledge about what they're going through and what they're doing. There's really, it's really a win win situation. But rarely do we have people, when we move them into a certain role where they don't succeed, like they almost always come out the other end successful.

Jeff Winters:

I'm going to ask a question to both of you about this, about why that is. So because the outside hire has a far higher risk of failure in our experiences, I think collectively than the internal hire. So So wouldn't the case be Eric? Like? Is it fair to say that you the trade off really is the risk of the outside hire isn't like generally like intellectual competency, or being smart in a certain area. It's all the other stuff. It's the culture, it's the leadership style, it's the AI going to pour into you all of the tribal knowledge that we have. And we'd rather take the risk on, hey, somebody has all that stuff, whoop, will just teach you the specialization? Like isn't it a fair way to say is that too simple to say it that? Well,

Eric Watkins:

I think that's exactly what we've done. And that's what's worked to this point. And not that's not to say other companies haven't done it the exact opposite. Yeah, been able to be successful. But we feel like just with our business, and, you know, I would say, you know, there's a lot of grit in our business. And some of you may relate to that and other industries, and it's hard to replicate that with somebody from the pace and the grit at which our business operates is hard to replicate. So I would have rather have somebody that understands that yeah, and then I'll teach them everything else.

Scott Scully:

You know, there's, you made a joke about accounting, but a role like that, like a high level, controller, you know, someone that has it, CPA, that's, that's a whole different story, right? We're talking about the other 80% of the positions that exist within your organization. There are some specialized positions where you probably hire from the outside, and you find the very best person for that role, but a manager of this department, and the fact that maybe he or she could manage this department over there, and they're both kind of operational functions or sales or account management functions. Those people can rotate or around. Right? Yeah, there's a lot of those type of leadership or individual contributor positions where you could go from one to the next, how Eric probably thought he was more operational minded. And I would argue that he's just as good from a revenue perspective and sales and account management. But he doesn't know that until he goes on and takes on different roles.

Jeff Winters:

I think people tend my statement here is this. I think people tend to underestimate the risk of hiring a super talented person perfectly resumes outside person. underestimate the risk of them not under like not from a cultural standpoint, man, whatever all of those things that going bad and overestimate how hard it is for someone who's in a tangential department who is a perfect cultural fit, who understands the business, they underestimate or overestimate how difficult it is for them to learn another area the bit like its way, I think it is way easier than people think, for an account manager to learn sales, or a salesperson to learn operations than it is for a perfectly resume perfectly credentialed, perfect person from the outside to learn just the pace of the business and how it works. And that, that I think is an important point for me on this.

Eric Watkins:

Yeah, you know, it's, I keep thinking about the pace of the business, because we've talked about that a lot like it, we are in a different pace. This is a monthly business, every business has its own pace, you know, like, you're right, yeah, I guess if it was, if your business was a little bit slower pace, maybe it's semiannual or annual, the way you're looking at things, you probably have a little bit more time to have the leader come in and shadow six different departments for six months before they need to go into their role. I just don't think a lot of businesses have that luxury.

Scott Scully:

This is definitely an episode for the people that are saying, I'm going to step up and go at it, and I'm gonna grow this shit out of my business. I've got several years ahead of me where I want to get to several million dollars, and I'm going to have lots of employees and I want to keep them here and keep them energized and have the highest likelihood of being at X number of millions down the road. This isn't the 1015 20 person business. This episode isn't

Jeff Winters:

Yeah, you got or if it is like at least start building knowing that you're going to need this. So here's so Alright, so let's say people are over the hump. And they're like, Okay, I'm over the specialization thing. I love what these people are saying in cultural or internal mobility or mobile culture, I dig. And then the next thing is like, how do you spot the people who are going to be good for that? Scott? I'm curious, Eric, whoever wants to start like, what are we looking for in people who are going to be great for that mobile culture?

Scott Scully:

I think that's a great question. I think there's a lot of things you could look at past job experiences, maybe what they studied versus what they're doing, not literally that someone might have got a degree in this and they're doing something totally different. You know, they've got they've taken two different learning paths already. The roles that they've played, questions you're asking to just determine if they're willing to do that. Maybe sports teams they were on? Do they play offense or defense? Or did they rotate in different positions and go through transitions? And then I think one of the most important things is finding people that have been through some shit, adversity, and had their back against the wall and came out swinging, and they're better for it today. You got to find those individuals where this tiny little business problem is a small life issue for them, because they've been up against worst and conquered.

Eric Watkins:

I think he hit on a lot of good ones, especially the I would emphasize the adversity one for sure. Because as they go into this, they're definitely going to have to deal with it. One I would add in is when you talk to them, they talk above their current position. So they're not just you know, if I'm talking to an SDR, they're not just telling me SDR stuff, they're looking at things from operations in a sales manager, like they're, they're the wheels are turning on how the business operates. Because I think you're, that's good. You're already getting them in with that awareness.

Scott Scully:

Let's get you know, that's good. I didn't think about that. Because I'll sit in the new hire classes. And there's always a individual or two that will be like, I'm coming for your job, or I'm like, yeah, and a lot of them are right. Yeah. Like those people that are actually talking that way. I didn't necessarily think about that. That's a great point.

Jeff Winters:

I got a few on my list. One of them I think goes to that there. I think there is an IQ component to this. Sure. At a certain level, there's like an IQ, okay? Are they have the raw intellectual horsepower, the smarts to like, go do it. I think that's the thing, too. You can't be afraid to fail. Like you got to find people that are not afraid to fail because Eric to your point, like, if you do 10 deployments, one of them might not go that well. And that's okay. You got to like create an environment where that's okay. But you can't have people that are afraid to fail. And then last, there are people for whom you know, change to them is like, splitting an entree is to me, like they're just allergic to it. It just it's their internal makeup is bad. It just is like they can't take it. They need stability. Those people don't thrive in this environment.

Eric Watkins:

I didn't hear anything you said. After you've rejected splitting and Andre, we're going to war over this. I can't wait for that.

Scott Scully:

I thought it was pretty good transition actually what he was talking Yes, a

Eric Watkins:

little. No, it was good. I like how you worked it back in.

Jeff Winters:

They call that a callback callback and entertain mocha little callback to me, Mark that down

Eric Watkins:

check. Can you mark that? Can you note that please call it a callback? i One other point is, and I don't even think we know we do this, but we don't. We don't fire our people who take chances for us. We always find a spot for them. Right? So we're not like, people have livelihoods. They have families, they have things and that that's a big thing. When someone asks you to take a risk, and you're like, I don't know, I'm performing well, in this role. I'm making good money, I'm doing this, what if this, this this, we take care of people, like we really do, you have a good attitude, and you work your ass off to try to make it work. If it doesn't pan out, we're gonna find a spot for you in this organization. And I think that's important to communicate in advance and you'll get more buy in from the team. That's another

Scott Scully:

really good one. You're taking people you're taking care of people all the time, that work hard and have a positive attitude where maybe one thing isn't their best skill set, but you find the next thing and then you've got a loyal person. I like them. I

Eric Watkins:

have a great example actually. And I hope she doesn't mind me saying this. But Jessica Wintel who's our VP of training here executive VP of training, she actually played the director of partner sales role. And it wasn't she went into it knowing like, this isn't really what I want to do forever, but I'm happy to fill a gap as as we need it. In Herges, playing that role, and actually having to manage the people that are doing the work. And now going into training is way different than us bringing in someone who's just done training from the outside. So much more understanding of what's going on.

Scott Scully:

You know, I'm not I don't know if this is statistically correct. But, you know, we always are having people come back as well. I bet a higher percentage of those people that are coming back, played a couple of roles. Oh, I bet. And then they got somewhere and they, and they didn't have that continued growth. Yeah. They wanted to go.

Eric Watkins:

So I made him eat one meal. If

Jeff Winters:

you love it, I'm gonna ignore that. If, if you love it, going somewhere else that doesn't have it is going to feel really like a slog. Like you're really stuck. And again, just to give people perspective, there will be people who will do deployments for six months here three months, like it just it goes quick. Right? Finding there's there's a lot of growth, there's a lot of new stuff happened. And we need people to plug those holes filled those gaps. Hey, what about if So and So wouldn't it be awesome over here? It's like, yeah, it's a great idea. Let's go talk to him. And you go, Hey, would this be interesting is like, boom, let's do it. And that's how quickly stuff happens. If you can build that sort of force field around your business where you got people moving around, and they're excited, and they like it, and it's fun. I think it's fun. Yeah, it's a fun thing, to try new challenges in a relatively risk free environment, because like you said, nobody's getting fired, you're not going to drop somebody's comp dramatically. Like, you can go back, you can move around again, to go to another place where it's like, well, ops isn't doing well, let's give it another 18 months, like 18 months, no, let's put Bob in. Let's put Joe in. Let's put Christina and she'd crushed it. Well, we really gotta give this person 18 months.

Eric Watkins:

Yeah, I like using that, you know, we've changed a lot along the way. That's part of our culture. It's how we've been able to grow so fast. And when people get sort of change, Whiplash, so to speak, you know, I'll bring up well could be on the other end of the spectrum, where literally, you're going to do this same exact thing for the rest of your life and nothing's changing. To me, that sounds a lot worse than dealing with a little bit of change, here and there and having some opportunity. That's a great perspective. Well, great conversation today, we talked about adaptability, you know, it's important to not only find those right people up front, but if you're gonna grow your business, you're gonna take this thing to the next level, you have to create a culture of mobility and you have to provide opportunity, and you're just growing skill sets all over. And it just creates this variety that people end up loving, but it really starts with the culture. So hopefully you all had some good takeaways from what we talked about today. Always be growing. Always be growing.

Scott Scully:

Always be adapting,

Eric Watkins:

always be adapt. Thanks for listening to the growth show. Leave us a review and let us know how we're doing or if there's a topic you'd like us to cover in the future.

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