The Grow Show: Business Growth Stories from the Frontlines

Episode 13: Why Work From Home Doesn't Always Work

July 01, 2022 Scott Scully, Jeff Winters, Eric Watkins Season 1 Episode 13
The Grow Show: Business Growth Stories from the Frontlines
Episode 13: Why Work From Home Doesn't Always Work
Show Notes Transcript

You've probably seen hundreds of LinkedIn posts about how employees "proved they could do it" during quarantine. But now that cases are subsiding, are you facing pushback trying to get your workforce back in the office? In this episode, we dive into the benefits of in-office collaboration and the ways you can get what you want as a business leader without losing your team members. 

Thanks for listening!

Eric Watkins:

Welcome to the grove show where we make it easier for entrepreneurs and leaders to grow their businesses. You'll hear from real leaders with real stories about their successes and failures. So you don't have to make the same mistakes. We won't break out textbooks or talk theory only raw stories from the front lines with actionable takeaways.

Unknown:

The gross show sponsored by Heil sound, world class microphones for stage studio, broadcast and podcast. Find your sound it Heil. sound.com Here's the next episode of the Grow Show.

Eric Watkins:

Welcome back to the Grow show. I'm here with my partners in growth. Man, we haven't had all three of us together in a while here too long.

Unknown:

Feels good. It

Eric Watkins:

feels good. Yes. Good saddle, baby. Back in the Saddle here with my partners in growth. Scott scoli Jeff winters Jeff's a little freaked out right now because he doesn't have headphones.

Jeff Winters:

I don't have headphones. How am I levels? Levels do set levels. When I say levels What do not say levels. I feel like yeah, like I mean, like crows are there's

Eric Watkins:

not enough snare in your headphones. There's not enough. They know what that's from. That's a that's an Eminem, reference. Eminem, turn up the snare, turnip snare, we're in the studio. Oh, yeah, we're in Nelly studio. And

Unknown:

he is back to face in the stopwatch to Oh, you're back

Eric Watkins:

in your seat.

Jeff Winters:

Everybody are free. Our regular listeners know, I get moved around and they put me in front of the stopwatch. So I will maintain my discipline and speak the exact amount I'm supposed to speak and not a second longer.

Eric Watkins:

Do you feel comfortable? In that? See,

Jeff Winters:

I don't feel comfortable anywhere. So

Eric Watkins:

you so one would say maybe you don't feel at home? In that scene? Well, that's interesting, because our topic today I got some trouble. Brilliant. Okay, it was beyond good. Beyond Good. Our topic today is work from home. I heard that, you know, my segways got lost after the first couple episodes. Got to bring them back. Nice job, Jeff doesn't feel comfortable, he doesn't feel at home. And now we're talking about work from home. Not that anybody's passionate about this topic. On either side. Yeah, we're not gonna get any ship for this. It just like, just like about every topic these days is, you got to argue with one another, no one can agree on anything. So this is a topic that is hot. And I feel like it's getting hotter, as we kind of get into or come upon this recession. People are talking about, you know, as companies kind of overextended themselves, maybe focused a little bit too much on revenue, instead of overall performance and productivity that they they dug themselves a hole where we're seeing some layoffs, because they aren't as efficient or productive as an organization. And now businesses are in a spot, when you're looking at every dollar and making sure counts that are you getting the productivity you need, as a business. And a lot of businesses haven't made the transition back into what was working before when they were in the office. So it's an interesting topic. I know people feel passionately about it. Scott, why don't we start with you? What are your thoughts? What are your thoughts on work

Unknown:

for people who already know? All right, well, I'm going to try to be a grown up in this discussion. I hate work from home. Good.

Jeff Winters:

Is that the grown up? What was it gonna be if you weren't going to be a grown up?

Unknown:

I'm just but what I'm in this conversation, I will be talking about how I think that some people can Oh,

Jeff Winters:

that was a preface that was a preface, but but

Unknown:

I really don't like and I don't like it because I don't prefer it. And then there are other things that I think about that I'm not always the best at getting across. And that's the mental health aspects of it. And collaboration and training. And just some things that when when teams are together, are a little bit easier than when teams are apart. You know. So my opinions come from a lot of different areas. And sometimes I'm not great at communicating. I just said hey, work from home, but what I'm really feeling as some people really need to be around others for mental health reasons. They're just better people. They can separate their home and their work life. They can have better relationships. They are important to the team and they can others can watch them perform at that level and the new employees coming in. They're like, Oh, he's making it look easy. I want to do it like Bob there's Just a lot more, I guess that goes into formulate my opinion. If that makes sense, Jeff,

Jeff Winters:

I thought it made great sense. Very adult,

Eric Watkins:

very adult. How do you feel, Jeff?

Jeff Winters:

I feel in the following way. First, I think that there is this, I think employees would be shocked to know the percentage of leaders that are feeling one way and doing something else. Yeah, I think there's a huge break. And it's the CEOs that I talked to, and the leaders that I talk to, are all having the same challenge of Wait a minute, for X number of years, however long you've been in charge of a business or running a business or in leadership, I've made decisions that were sometimes unpopular, but at least I believed in them. And now on this one, I believe that people should be in the office, I believe that we were better, there was some intangible that was happening when more people were in the office, and I can't make that decision. And so this is for the I think this episode is for those business leaders. And that you should know you're not alone, by any means. I don't I don't have the stats. But I can give you it's the vast majority of people that I speak with, are in this very odd universe of feeling one way and doing something totally different. And I think that push is going to come to shove on this at some point. And when that happens is when times get tougher, when business gets harder when results aren't as good. And it does feel like although they say economists have predicted six of the last three recessions, that's that's a funny thing. It's a funny finance joke. I like that. But times could get tougher. And I think what I get to my opinions later, but I think that that is a feeling. And people who are in leadership, or business owners, or CEOs or presidents need to know that others are feeling the same way. And it's a very tough spot.

Eric Watkins:

I think we should start with the caveat of a lot of you have employees that aren't local. And you obviously don't have the luxury of bringing them in the office. Sure, you could cut staff and focus on talent locally, but just there's some positions. There's some types of businesses where there's just certain talent that's only accessible in certain places. And those employees have to be remote. What we're talking about here is businesses that have employees locally, that could come into the office, but you have a system set up not to. And you know, I guess the first thing is, let's talk about all the reasons why you said they feel one way but they haven't done it. What are some of the fears? Like what are some of the fears of of business owners and CEOs who know they'd be more productive in the office, but they just haven't pulled the trigger on?

Jeff Winters:

I don't think it's fears. I think it's fear. I think there is one fear, and it is talent. I won't get them or I won't keep them, period, the end. And I don't know, maybe I'm oversimplifying, but I think it's fear, I don't think it's fears. And that is a very real fear. It's a big fear of all the fears that might be the fieriest be eeriest. But that's what I

Unknown:

that's a good word, furious. This is where I have difficulty because I think that if, if, and i By the way, I'm not saying that we have arrived at where I think you would need to be to be able to have people saying I don't care one way or the other, let's just get this done. If if someone believed so much in the product, or the service, or what you were doing for people or the problems you are solving, totally tied into the mission. You know, I think you have less people concerned about the exact number of days they're in the office and people more concerned about, let's get the job done. Let's help more people, let's put this product out the door. So I think that for those of you that are worried about work from home, worry about that first. And then there's going to be more people tied into what your mission is. And then you're probably going to have less arguments about somebody going somewhere else for an extra day at home. That makes sense.

Eric Watkins:

That makes a ton of sense. I feel like there's a little bit of the disease of me, right? Everybody is focused on me, me, me and what's best for me and we've lost a little bit of the we and I think when you're making this decision, you got to think about all parties, what's best for the people, what's best for the clients and and what's best for the company.

Unknown:

Yeah, like I'm gonna use us as an example. You know, we have we have people that are coming in, in a semi entry level role. Some people are used to people right out of college. As an example, and their use, you know, they're coming in, they go to into training. And then if they are immediately out the door, what they're missing is being there on a team where someone can watch them struggle daily with the things that they're struggling with how to use the technology, they need to be able to kneel down and help those people, we have lots of those people all at once. Those people need to see other people doing the job well, like right next to him is Sally that is killing it on the phone, she's been here three months, and that gives me a hell of a lot of confidence to sit there, hear her, see her doing the job, know that I can do it, there's just so many things that happen for somebody that's new that comes in, the manager has an easier time with, you know, training that person and bringing them up and instilling confidence and giving them the vision. And then that person just soaks in all of the environment and what's going on the ramp up time. For an entry level person like that, for what we do. This is faster. And if it was 100% remote, we wouldn't be in the same spot period.

Jeff Winters:

I'm going to from a culture, so I'm gonna give you the culture standpoint, and just like take relationships as a particle. It's time it's just not the same. And maybe people can get on and here's what they'll say. You'll have leaders say, well, we've figured out how to do it. Yeah, right. I don't think yeah, I it's made, then you need to tell us how you've how you've done it. I just I don't hear a lot of leaders go in our culture has gotten better. Since we've gone remote. I don't I don't, I don't hear that whatsoever. And then you'll have individual contributors, that are managers or employees who will say, Well, I don't get my relationship satisfaction or build relationships at work, like I have friends outside of work for that. And to that I say, bullshit, like I'm sure you do. But that doesn't mean you can't have I've seen it, I've watched relationships form that will never be broken. Because we were at work together. And it's not people on your team. Sure you get on a zoom with people on your team, maybe you can preserve the same level, it's relationships, cross department cross function. And I, for me, and the relationships that I've seen grow, they are not going to happen as well, if everybody's remote. Now my point is here isn't that you can't participate in the culture if you're fully remote, but that nucleus matters. Like the force, the power, the energy that happens at the home base, can spread outward, if you have it, if you've created it. The relationships, that's what they do when they want to cut me off. And no, because Kate, our producer is about to cut that off. But I just want everybody out there in the land to hear when Scott is ready for me to stop talking. That is the sound that's made here. They cut it. No, but I, I the relationships really matter. And that's the people are the culture like that's the regular things and traditions that you do. That's the culture and it has not been the same since we've gone remote. And at this business, I'll say specifically, everybody is in on Wednesdays, it is a Wednesday, and I cannot wait to get back upstairs and see the people who I care about and who have mattered to me for nine years. And it's and that you can't do that. I just don't think you can do it remotely with virtual.

Eric Watkins:

That's such a great point, Jeff, and I agree with you completely. And let me let me get personal with it for a second. So when we we were never remote as a business for most of our business until COVID. And then we went to COVID. And you obviously didn't have a choice at that point. It was all you could do. And then we kind of gotten to this hybrid approach. And you know, it first working remotely. I was like, wow, this is kind of nice. Like I get to wake up 30 minutes later than I would have otherwise and still work at the same time. And then I I started realizing and this comes as a surprise when I tell a lot of people but I'm a natural introvert. And I get my energy by being by myself and I'm a learned extrovert. The complete opposite of you, Jeff, I was gonna say You talk a lot for being an introvert. Well, I'm learning I'm a learned extrovert. Well, boy, you're an advanced, advanced, learned extrovert. But what I realized is that I was a shell of myself when we were working from home. I lost a lot of those skills that I had developed over the years. And I had to come back and relearn those things by dealing with running in person trainings and talking to individuals and collaborating with groups. And I think as a society, you know, we have become more and more. You know, introverts specifically is who I'm talking about because a lot of extroverts are like, give me back into the office. I need to see people like I'm going crazy at home, but a lot of introverts are going toward It's like, I want to be at home, I want to talk to less people, I want to have interaction, it's going to come down to the point where you're not even like seeing people face to face, we're gonna all be texting and typing to each other as a society. And that is scary shit. Because that's like, so like, there's a fundamental, like, I have a fundamental belief that we have to as a society, really push human interaction, because we're better with it. We need it,

Unknown:

you know, what is easier to do? I think and by the way, we're not a company that is going to has laid off or is going to lay off, you think it's a little easier to lay off a bunch of people that were remote? I do. Oh, absolutely. You think it's easier for somebody that's remote to lay your ass off to go to another company get another job?

Eric Watkins:

Yeah, be less connected to the clients, the loyalty

Unknown:

is not there. It's not the same. And somebody may say, Well, I'm gonna go where I can get 100% remote, that I'm going to be more loyal to that company bullshit. Like, show me the stats, that people that are 100% remote are more loyal than people that are working in the office, I don't think you could show me one. You couldn't.

Jeff Winters:

I'll tell you another thing that has happened to me over the last three days, twice, three times. I've had people with very real life circumstances that were bad, that were bad. That got emotional as I should have, that I didn't really, I didn't know and had to sort of see it. And their work. Friends and colleagues were there to support them. And there will be people who will say I don't need that I get support outside of work. Yeah, you know what you spend a lot of your time at work you do or working. And those are people that know you incredibly well, especially if you've been in a place for a long time. And I know that if something were going wrong in my life, like the people I work with, who I spend nine hours a day with, are people that know me plenty well, and that I would want to support me. And that I would want to pull that out of me if I weren't coming out with it. And that is that that is very hard to do. Virtually, I've had those situations happen virtually. It's just it's it's not the same. It isn't. And that's that's part of the culture, like that's people caring about each other. That's the fabric of of some of the business is that stuff

Unknown:

that is so good. So good. Just think about you see those companies that have been around for 50 6070 years, those local companies that's like those people that have known each other work with each other for years, that's like they're in the office, right. And they're taking care of each other and their family, and they can see each other and, and I think that's a brilliant point, Jeff, you know, I've, I've been thinking a lot about this lately. And it's the it's work from home and the pandemic, and we went through it, and then people transition back where they didn't, but there was this big feeling that work from home was proven out by the pandemic, people were able to go home and be productive. And so we should be able to do it forever. But it's not the same. We were talking about this before the show. People were scared, probably bound together more by this kind of common enemy COVID. But they were locked in their homes, like people were scared to death. They were locked in their homes, you couldn't go to lunch, you couldn't go to the bar, you didn't go see your friends, you were in the house, you were scared that you were going to lose your job, people, more people were laying people off not hiring, you just wanted to keep your job period. So I'm gonna work my ass off. Some people didn't even go outside because they literally were afraid to pass the person on the street. And so there was, of course, a period of time, even in our business where there was a certain level of productivity. And then you start coming out of the pandemic. And people say, well, like we just proved out all over the world, that people can work from home, we should keep doing this. Or someone's feeling that way individually, while I work from home, I'm gonna keep doing this and it's just not they're not the same. Now everything's open up, you can go do whatever you want. And it's just not the same. More people are hiring, right? It's not same scenario.

Eric Watkins:

And I think, you know, a lot of people don't think about this and in Elon Musk, I know is very controversial what he did, but he brought it up in his, like, the number one thing I liked most about what he said is he's like if you can't come into the office, but the factory workers can come in every single day and make the product that you're selling or retaining or building. That's messed up. And I think that's the case in a lot of industries. You have people on the front line entry level jobs in the office. Every day grinding to be able to produce the product that you're selling and delivering to clients. And then you have salespeople that are saying, well, I don't want to be, I don't want to come in the office. Well, maybe you don't, but maybe you should like, if you're really going to be the best part of that organization, right, and you're going to contribute, maybe you should, maybe you should go rub elbows with some of the people that are delivering the product, working their butt off. And I think at our company, at least, it's like a lot of those people were doing that work. Right. So there's that element. And we've lost that our sales has has been primarily more remote through this transition. And they've lost a little bit of connection with the product, I believe.

Unknown:

Yeah, I totally agree. You know, what I think people should do? Because I feel like business owners are scared. Yeah, they're in

Eric Watkins:

a tough spot.

Jeff Winters:

What should they do? somebody's listening to this,

Unknown:

I think you should do what you believe in. Yeah. And I think that you're handcuffed with while I'm gonna lose everybody. But the fact of the matter is a lot of you. You hired everybody, no remote. Everyone was in the office COVID happens, people come back. Now they're telling you if they don't have at least four days, or if they don't have at least three days, they're gonna go somewhere else? Well, first of all, there's another problem because they're not bought into exactly what you're all doing enough or,

Eric Watkins:

or you don't have the lesson for them. Yeah, right to regret. But,

Unknown:

but I've been feeling this way a lot, right. But we're still not going to do collectively, I don't think in our plans going forward, what we'd 100% like to do, because I think we'd maybe sit in here and vote and say it's good, everyone comes back, we're not going to do that we'll have some element of remote. But, man, I just don't think that it's good for your business and good for you mentally as a leader, to just do 100% What you don't believe in like, I think you've got to believe in it. For the most part, you got to go with your gut. And you've got to have the people that are with you for the long haul. Stay with you. And if a couple of people leave, you're just going to feel better and be a better leader. That's my opinion, as opposed to doing a bunch of stuff that you just don't believe in, because you think everybody's gonna leave. Just starting to feel like that.

Jeff Winters:

I think that's right, because here's what you don't want. You don't want the business to really suffer and look back in two years and go, Wait a second, and I just made the unpopular decision, brought people into the office, Scott, you're talking about a half step not we're fully remote. Now everybody's in the office 50 hours a week, it's 40 hours a week, whatever. It's, hey, we're remote, X percent of the time now we're going to be remote 50% of that, or whatever, whatever your half step is, is this is what you believe. But what you can't do is you can't look back in two years and go boy, if I had just brought people in a couple of days a week, we wouldn't have had to lay people off, or we wouldn't have had to make a really tough or bad decision that we otherwise wouldn't have like, don't put your that that's the worst case scenario that you can't have.

Unknown:

You know, you have to you needs to happen as an owner, you have to want to come to work.

Jeff Winters:

Well, that's a good, that's, there's tips to get people to come in, that's got to be on there.

Unknown:

I'm just saying I need to want to come to work like I need to want to work here. Right? I don't want to work at a fully remote environment. I don't believe in it. Like there's got to be some part of this where I feel good or you feel good. And you feel good, right? Yeah, like otherwise, we can't be our best for people. Yep. You just can't do 100% What the popular vote is? I don't think

Eric Watkins:

and I, I think let me clarify something we're not saying. What we're not saying is that there aren't certain people who can even be more productive or productive remotely. What we're saying is, it's hard for us to believe in a team environment, that a team as a whole is going to be better with being less connected, and seeing each other less not having as strong of relationships with what they would in person.

Jeff Winters:

Let me tell you what I'm what I'm thinking. If I were doing this live, I'd have a phone call right now. And it'd be from a Rivoli remote employee who lives in San Francisco, who's unbelievable. She's just one of those like, she's just incredible. Every month, top of the leaderboard, she's got a team of people, some of whom are just like her. And that happens. We're not We're not saying that that person shouldn't be allowed to work. Quite the opposite. But you can't talk to the exceptions. You must talk to the rule and I think what we're saying Eric, you prefaced it perfectly is on balance. Like if you like let's just talk about people and there's plenty of them who have an office location in a place and are letting people work fully remote. I think that's like the, the,

Unknown:

the grip when they when they hired on five years ago, they 100% in the office. Now someone might be pissed if they're not four days out of five at home. Yep. And it's an there were a huge contributing factor to the success of the organization. They were helping other people learn and grow. And now they're absent in their homes. And that particular team is hurting.

Jeff Winters:

Let's talk about a few things. So alright, let's say, now we got people on the boat or off the boat, probably. We got people who go now you guys ready? It's this we're going to be a fully remote world. You're gonna see you're gonna be in the metaverse. You're not gonna go to a concert you're gonna watch on your headset. Enjoying? What up, Charlie? My words on that.

Unknown:

But we're growing and laying people off. And

Jeff Winters:

yeah, and then we'll get you got, then you've got the other camp who's like I'm with like, what do I do? Next, bring everybody back, you can a couple of thoughts here. First is, don't forget, make the office a place people want to come to independent of that, make it a place people want to come to make it a place where you've got more amenities than you had before. Go go overboard with the activities, go overboard with the snacks. And it sounds silly with the snacks and the drinks and the lunches and the go beyond over index on those things. And making them make it a like a mosquito, like make it a place that people really want to come to. Because that at the end of the day, like forcing someone to do something is in the best interest of the businesses is one thing. But boy, when you can make it a place that people really want to come to like it was I guarantee many of you are listening going, we had a place like that. People loved it. Don't forget, make it a place people want to come to

Eric Watkins:

I would say number two would be an or like a broken record on this. But it's so important and it ties with everything. Make sure people have a desirable future. Yeah, what's in it for them. Because if it's just down to the nuts and bolts of I need to do this job. And I can either do it in the office or remote, they're probably going to pick remote. But if they know they can come in, be a part of the product, be a part of the team grow into a new role advance their career, you're gonna get more people on board with bringing them back

Unknown:

and have murdered you know, if you're going to have one day or two days or three days, whatever your plan is, make sure that they earn it, whether they earn it through tenure performance, both. And then if they're home, and they're not performing. Don't let them be at home. Bring them back. Right just that should be a privilege to be able to to do the work remote right that's a privilege to be able to go do that or it used to it was maybe it's more common. Maybe it's just more commonplace now, but I think somebody should be should have to prove that they actually can do the work. And if they can't do the work and they are living in your area where you have an office to come into then they should come back.

Jeff Winters:

And I've heard you say this a million times. Scott, you to Eric, it's like we want you to come in. Yeah, for the business and the clients. But what about for you like Eric, you said a few episodes ago your job I don't want to misquote you quote Eric why usually I quote like Galileo or Socrates. But I want to quote Eric Watkins, very similar. You said your job as leader, your highest calling as a leader is to get the most out of PA that is your job to get the most out of somebody, them to get the most out of themselves, right for you to get them to get the most out of themselves. As I get that, right. Okay, that you feel like you correct me for no reason. But I understand what you're saying. But as a leader, like

Eric Watkins:

it's very selfish, the way you worded it the first time, very selfless the second time, but you go ahead.

Jeff Winters:

The point remains, I digress. Very much. So this whole introverted thing I don't, I'm not buying I want to see a note. It was me a rapper, he's on stage, there's never been this many problems. We're gonna talk about that in a future episode, we're gonna analyze dive deep. My point is, though, if that's your job, as a leader, like to get whatever to get the most out of people in some way or another. And they're not performing. And they think they can perform from home. But they really can't, and they just don't know what you're doing somebody a huge service. people disagree with this, you're doing them a huge service, to put them in an environment where they can succeed and be their best selves. And that's an unpopular thing to say. But that is plenty true. And I've heard Scott, I've heard you say it a million times

Unknown:

of story out of story after story of people that didn't necessarily want to transition back. But then once they did, you know, it took maybe a week or two weeks and then they started sharing their story of how they just didn't realize where they were at, you know, as a human being and where they were at mentally and they just started to get happier and then and just feel more productive and more successful when they get around people. I think there's a huge group of people that are at home that actually think that they're performing at a higher level and they think they're fine and they're actually really not. And when they get back, they become the better version of themselves, like you're talking about,

Eric Watkins:

I think another thing to add in and it goes into the episode that you all did without me, which I love. But working in the business, when your people come back into the office, it couldn't be more important to roll up the sleeves, and get in the trenches with everybody. And I think we can all take a note from some blue collar businesses like I think about I was telling you guys about my dad's friend, very successful asphalt landscaping company. He's on a job site every day, not watching, not spectating, jumping in and helping them get the work done. That's the value you bring as leader, you don't see that when you're all remote in your houses, you can't roll up the sleeves, and get in the trenches and help people. And I think that's a huge aspect to make this successful. I

Unknown:

couldn't agree more.

Jeff Winters:

There's something to be said, for walking around the room of account managers, or salespeople, or SDRs, or whomever, and hearing the calls, like you just you can't get it on. And I love Call recording softwares I think they have an amazing place to help our teams train and get better. But this is different. There's something about it that you can start to hear things and immediately coach and it's in the moment and in the second as even a not not a VP of sales. But as a leader of a company, not a VP of account management as a from a different point. It's just something about it that you don't get, and you can't replicate virtually as much as to try.

Eric Watkins:

You just made me think of this, ask yourself this question right now. Us three right here? Where would we be at in our development, if everything that we experienced coaching, training, everything was remote, instead of in person, I wouldn't be not even here, I wouldn't even be sitting here wouldn't have a shot? No, like you all the all the things that I picked up on in different places like that was one of the big parts of my development, I sat near sales, I sat near partner sales when I was in operations. Yeah, it's like, I wouldn't be here right now,

Unknown:

I think about my past with all the sales reps I traveled with and sitting in the car and the stories and maybe the car broke down or in the dealer in and out of dealerships going to have a drink afterwards. And just the life that you were living together, and you'll learn about their families and seeing their quirks and, and you know, you don't do that on Zoom, like living together, going through experiences, training people in a hurry, getting to know each other quicker,

Eric Watkins:

it becomes very transactional. Remote, if fully remote becomes very transactional. Because you're not there, that loyalty is not there, you don't really have to show up for that person. And I know a lot of people are listening. And it's like, you all just don't trust your employees or

Unknown:

but you know, relationships are important. And they're deeper if you are with each

Eric Watkins:

100%.

Unknown:

I don't they do say well, you don't trust that's That's not. That's not that doesn't go in your head that doesn't go in any of our heads that we don't trust.

Jeff Winters:

Now. You know, an interesting note, there's like, if you're going to stay fully remote with everybody, or if you're going to have some fully remote employees, what can you do to make sure that that happens? And to me, one thing that we've done could even could do even better, but we've done a pretty good job of visits. You got to go like No, like it's theirs. We love the sales team last day of the month people are here. Yeah, people come into town. We have visits we've had there's that connectivity matters. Yep. Here's the

Eric Watkins:

other thing is, and let's look at this selfishly, from the employee standpoint really quick. If you want to move up and get promoted, you miss out on so many different interactions with leaders in the organization. There's so many times people just randomly stop me and have a conversation for 10 minutes. That would never happen remote. And I'm like, that person's stuck. And then I go ask their leader, their leaders later of like, Hey, who's this person? And like, what are they up to? And what and

Unknown:

I love that I had somebody pull me over on the way in and talk about their company meeting. And she's mentioned in a house, she sent the meeting to her dad, and he really liked some of the things that we're talking about. And he said, Man, I'd like to work at abstract. But you'd like she wouldn't have called me on Zoom. No, like to have a conversation, but we passed each other and we got to have an interaction and that was cool. It doesn't happen. Yeah.

Jeff Winters:

Plus, like how would people Eric compliment you on how good you were on the podcast on Zoom? I don't even know how to do that.

Eric Watkins:

You know, I'm here to help. I'm not actually getting any compliments on any platform. But those are just you. I get a lot of people complimenting you and Scott to me, like Okay, Eric, I listened to the podcast. Scott Jeff did a really great job last week. Like, Yeah, unfortunately, I wasn't there. No comment.

Unknown:

I think that the the moderator, the leader, Eric's leading us through the conversation, so they think they're supposed to comment that good. Making jokes making us. First of all, I'm the worst one on here. So I shouldn't even be talking.

Eric Watkins:

I'm the Steve Nash. I'm passing the ball. I'm just passing the ball. I'm not taking the shots. I don't get all the glory. I'm just making sure it gets distributed frequently enough.

Unknown:

You are the two that were invited to other podcasts next month. Both of you guys have done we invited

Eric Watkins:

Dewey, I

Jeff Winters:

don't think would you carry that we're talking to our producer Katie, would you say we were invited

Unknown:

in another podcast? Yeah, that's what she'd say. She's shaking her head,

Jeff Winters:

people would have people reaching out to saying we got Oh, Eric and Jeff Boyle. Boy, we can't have another podcast that one of those two, I'm pretty

Eric Watkins:

sure I asked to be on one I definitely yes. But it's neither here nor there. Ultimately, I think it was a great conversation today. I know people feel very strongly about this. Just know from the place we're coming from. And we're trying to do this podcast, we're trying to help businesses, right. And we have employees that listen to this as well. And I think it's important for them to all hear our perspective. But ultimately, it's about business at the end of the day, like none of us are here, you don't have a job unless the business is successful. And we've lost a little bit of sight of that it's a little bit of the disease of me, and I'm thinking about what's best for me and myself. And, you know, ultimately everyone should shoot to be, we're talking to people who should shoot to be the best version of themselves, and you know, have a higher purpose. So we got people who are struggling with this and business owners, and hopefully you listen to this, and this maybe gave you the courage to make a decision that you wouldn't have otherwise, or just some things to think about, as you're navigating this situation. We know there's people that are probably doing it great, fully remote, we're not here to say that they're not, but they're probably in a different type of business. And there's different factors of why

Unknown:

can I say just on the way out that I've just a big recommendation would be, though, that if you're not feeling great that you have to do you have to believe in what your plan this. And I think there's a lot of people that are probably listening in you or mentioned this, that they don't feel good at all about what their current plan is, I'd switch that immediately. Yeah, maybe there's a little give and take, right, a little compromise. But if you don't feel way better about the plan that you have, you're not going to be as good of a leader and you're not going to be as successful going forward. I don't think

Eric Watkins:

and to be fair, when we came back, there's a lot of people that like if we would have done a company survey, it may have said, you know, 80% of people want to keep working remote, and then you come back, and half of those 80% of people love being back, but then don't know what they need until they have it. And so I wouldn't put all of your legitimacy on a survey or what goes out because sometimes you have to do what's best for people and they don't always know what's best for themselves. As bad as that sounds. It's just some it's been the case for me. Like a lot of times I've I've learned we've made decisions and they've ended up being better for me that I didn't know otherwise. So, great chat today, fellas, good to be back. In the studio. Always be growing to always be growing. Always be growing. Thanks for listening to the growth show. Leave us a review and let us know how we're doing or if there's a topic you'd like us to cover in the future.

Unknown:

The gross show is sponsored by sapper consulting. Let us schedule your sales appointments. So you don't have to abstract cloud solutions leveraging the power of the Salesforce platform to solve complex business problems, the straightforward solutions everybody needs to know

Jeff Winters:

the order of holidays in the summer. Everybody says July 4 Memorial Day distant third Labor Day they're just wrong. You can have a lot of opinions on a lot of things not this one that everybody loves. By the way, it's just not about the significance of the day. Be very very clear. A significance aside just fun just this is a light hearted topic I like fireworks horrible.

Unknown:

Yeah, but you but you also like kids going back to school dinners, which is totally stupid. Makes no sense.

Jeff Winters:

What other holiday Can you associate with kids going back to school? It that's it? It's just Labor Day.

Unknown:

Well, you don't like kids?

Jeff Winters:

We're on Easy Street.

Unknown:

I'd like to shoot off fireworks with my kids.

Jeff Winters:

You know, my kids when Charlot when this this goes into the time to tell my children. I love

Unknown:

it.